Women on SS are atypical

[Melbournian]

what happen to the glamarous lifestyle you wanted to lead?
don't tell me u're inspired to go for 2 minute noodles meals- u should be aiming to eat in 2 hat chef restaurants man.

 

[Dazz]

Women generally face more financial difficulties in later life than men.

No doubt, but that is their overwhelming choice.

Ask them to swap roles, Dad takes the kids and they get to visit once a fortnight whilst chipping in for some bills and see how many women decide to jump at that option. Not many I'd suspect.

Men in divorce suffer a deterioration in their wellbeing.

No one needs a study to realise that. Having your children stripped away, lies and innuedo being told about you in the subtle ways that endure, the pain of being shunted out of the marriage home.

Pfftt....lack of money - who cares....doesn't even rate compared to the pain most Dads go thru losing their kids. How much is a ripped out heart worth ??

 

[MsAli]

Pfftt....lack of money - who cares....doesn't even rate compared to the pain most Dads go thru losing their kids. How much is a ripped out heart worth ??

But I've seen divorced families where kids don't want to see their fathers even if their mother is open to get them to meet him....So not all cases really. Often if a father shows dissent and cruelty towards the mother, the children don't hold too much sympathy for him. We forget the impacts on kids. And especially if the child safety has been compromised during the marriage then what is the point really on someone showing their pain after the fact they have gone through abusing the wife, abusing the children and getting divorced? Some men would even go to the lengths of telling friends how awful their wife was etc in order to depict themselves as the one losing out. Not saying everybody does that but often people just buy into the victim story of one side or the other, thereby forgetting what the kids really have gone through and want. Many would say, kids shouldn't be allowed to decide...but at what cost? at their physical, emotional, mental well being? I don't agree.

Oh and in some cases one parent or the other refuses to see their children all together...like they were never theirs. Not sure how common though.

 

[weg]

But that can apply to either. I've also seen a case where the children didn't want to see the father, but the dysfunctional parent was actually the mother.

Another was where the mother convinced the children the father was an man to fear (he was a DH to her but was alway good with the children). Those kids went on to have a great relationship with him through his persistence in trying to keep contact with them.

Dazz's point was that it's very difficult for a man to be away from his children. It's one thing the woman doesn't have to contend with in divorce, and something that rarely gets acknowledged.

So how about when the mother is abusive (psychological AND physical) - it happens more than we realise?

Or when the mother is abusive to the children - most abuse to children is inflicted by the mother, not the father ?

The mother STILL gets the children.

Ugly business, divorce, but I agree, not one where the law favours men .

 

[Aaron_C]

Ugly business, divorce, but I agree, not one where the law favours men .

Remember not to leave your children next to men on an airplane because all men are closet-pedophiles too.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Great article for men. weg, you'll appreciate this. Also, the first comment is good to read, too.

 

[pennyk]

Great article for men. weg, you'll appreciate this. Also, the first comment is good to read, too.

I just find this sort of article so unhelpful. I think where there is a big power difference, either way, in a marraige, then its less likely to be a happy marraige. and when there is competition, either way, on who is "in control" then also unhappiness results.
I've been married for 18 years now.... like any marraige, its had its up and downs. it certainly doesnt seem that long, and I feel like still we have a lot to learn.
But we are partners, not competitors. In some areas, he is stronger, in others I am... We both work, his base salary is higher, my overall salary is higher. Who cares? We are building 1 family, not 2!
We used to split household duties, according to skill/ abilities.....but since I've been sick, he does nearly 100%, or we pay for help. I tend to do the child care related tasks, although now they are teens, he is doing most of the driving around.

I dont know that many people who have divorced, but nearly all my friends and family who are married successfully have very equal marraiges. one or other may do more housework, or more paid work........ but in "power", they are fairly equal.

Otherwise, you get the sort of attitude in this article (again it could be from either side) where there is a lack of respect and appreciation.. both of which spell doom for a relationship.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

But we are partners, not competitors. In some areas, he is stronger, in others I am... We both work, his base salary is higher, my overall salary is higher. Who cares? We are building 1 family, not 2!

That's the whole point of the article. Since it is written from the perspective of the male, it's about ensuring that your wife does not control you. You are your own man, not a child looking for permission and approval. The last paragraph sums it up quite nicely:

"If all this seems like a little too much to remember, there is a simple shortcut you can use to keep yourself in check. When talking with her, or contemplating talking to her, you can maintain the correct relationship dynamic by asking yourself a very simple question in your mind: “Am I talking to her as if she were my lover…or as if she were my mother, and I her child?”

Show me a woman who respects her husband, if she is in control of him and he constantly feels he needs her permission to do anything and I'll show you a pink elephant that can fly.

Penny, ever since the dawn of man, men have been the leader in relationships. Women want a man that can (and does) lead. Males have always (and will always be) the one that is given the role of provider and protector to a female and her offspring. That is a great deal of responsibility to take on and have expected of you. If your woman perceives that you can't perform that role, the marriage is dead. I know everyone harps on about equality and all that stuff these days, but we can't squeeze millions of years of evolution into a convenient little politically correct box because it makes some people feel all warm and fuzzy.

Neither I nor the article's author are suggesting women be virtual slaves to their men 'yes massah, no massah'. In conversations I've had around this and similar topics over the years, where that assertion has come about (not saying that that is what you are insinuating) my standard response has been 'If I want a doormat, I'll go to the hardware store and buy one'.

 

[Fifth]

Penny, ever since the dawn of man, men have been the leader in relationships. Women want a man that can (and does) lead. Males have always (and will always be) the one that is given the role of provider and protector to a female and her offspring. That is a great deal of responsibility to take on and have expected of you. If your woman perceives that you can't perform that role, the marriage is dead. I know everyone harps on about equality and all that stuff these days, but we can't squeeze millions of years of evolution into a convenient little politically correct box because it makes some people feel all warm and fuzzy.

There are some gaping holes in evolutionary psychology. For instance, where does homosexuality fit into the above?

 

[weg]

At the end of the day the one who has the hardest time in marriage and divorce, is the one who married the biggest shoithead - they exist in both sexes.

But would still like to see some law changes.

Like one that makes it an 'obligation' of the custodial parent to make the child as accessable as possible to the non custodial parent, or be penalised.

Revising maintence costs by expecting the custodial parent to pick up the slack at some stage if they don't work - possibly when the children are 13 to 14 and don't need constant supervision AND there is proof father is involved in their care.

There are more, but have a real busy day...

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

There are some gaping holes in evolutionary psychology. For instance, where does homosexuality fit into the above?

In any dynamic, there is always a natural leader and a natural follower. You will find, if you get to know gay people and monitor relationships (like I have) that there is almost always a 'male' and a 'female'. This occurs in lesbian relationships, too.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Like one that makes it an 'obligation' of the custodial parent to make the child as accessable as possible to the non custodial parent, or be penalised.

The Howard Government introduced this in 2008 - it was called the Shared Parenting Law, where if the custodial parent violated court ordered visitation, they could have custody revoked or even be sent to jail. This is as it should be. Every child has a right to a relationship with both parents.

The Labor Government, in their crusade to minimise fathers' and men's rights, repealed this legislation last year.

Here's an interesting case I read about a few months ago, which still makes me angry.

http://www.f4e.com.au/blog/2011/11/23/shared-care-dead-as-mother-stands-firm-on-no-access/#more-1347

Remember everyone - a vote for Labor is a vote against men.

 

[shuggy]

You will find, if you get to know gay people and monitor relationships (like I have) that there is almost always a 'male' and a 'female'.

I have a raving homosexual mate on the Gold Coast who told me they call each other tops and bottoms and they rarely deviate from these roles.
Top = pappa
Bottom = mamma

 

[Corey Batt]

I have a raving homosexual mate on the Gold Coast who told me they call each other tops and bottoms and they rarely deviate from these roles.
Top = pappa
Bottom = mamma

And Greek and Roman understand of sexuality was based on the dominant and the submissive. Gender didn't play a role. Hence why you see so many cases of homosexual relations, orgies etc.

I think the most stable relationships can be dom/sub, however it is a fine line which must be caution in respecting both parties. Two dominant partners can be huge fighting, whilst two submissive partners can mean you stick to a holding pattern which neither partner truly wants.

Eh, relationships.

 

[pennyk]

That's the whole point of the article. Since it is written from the perspective of the male, it's about ensuring that your wife does not control you. You are your own man, not a child looking for permission and approval. The last paragraph sums it up quite nicely:
.

the problem is that it swings towards "how can I control my wife", rather than how can we work together....... marry someone younger, who will let you earn all the money and stay home and look after the kids. Essentially, you are wanting to become her father!! which works just as well as her wanting to become your mother... it doesnt!

One thing that I find interesting is that i would say that my parents had a dysfunctional relationship.. married for 55+ years.. unhappily for most of that time. they had constant fights. My husbands parents were married around the same length of time, seemingy happy the whole time. I have a big family - no divorce, all happily married so far for over 20 years. one of my brothers has a marraige that I look up to as the 'best" marraige of anyone I know... clearly still "in love" after 30 years.......... My husband also has a big family, and only one child has a successful first marraige. I'm my hubbys second wife. one of the others has just separated from his third wife. Obviously, the happy family didnt sink in to the children.

My step daughter and her husband both come from broken families. In fact there are 5 or 6 "families" involved.. its very complicated, but suffice to say the children have a multitude of "grandparents". hubby's ex has 3 kids with 3 different fathers and has recently left her son with his father to start up with another man. So, not exactly a stable upbringing. My stepdaughter is the oldest, and although only married 7 years or so, is clearly committed to marraige and doesnt want to be lke her mum. So, I think the article is full of generalisations and "desires", but they are like "Happy Days" or a 50s sit com..... they arent overly realistic. Unrealistic expectations often lead to disappointment and lack of respect, on both sides.

Life has changed, and women do have more power and opportunities these days.. it doesnt mean the death of marraige and family. I do want my husband to have power in the relationship, and to speak his mind clearly. If either of us is unhappy about something, I want to be able to discuss it and come up with a compromise. But having a good marraige doesnt mean I have to be a "50's wife". It just means we need to work through challenges and find a way where we are both respected and neither of us is downtrodden. It is possible...... but it takes work, from both sides. and every marraige is different, so the way it works in practice is different.... just because this wife works and this one doesnt is no guarantee of success or failure. Cookie cutter marraiges dont often work... life is far more complicated than that.

For me, the one big lesson from my parents is that marraige takes time to get right. In the last 5 years of their life, they were like newlyweds...holding hands in public, happy and content. they both made changes which facilitated that change. I've asked a few people what their "secret" is and most say something clicked btw 15 and 20 years of marraige. I realised then that marraige takes time to get right and people often give up way too soon.

 

[CHAOS]

I know of a separation where the mother abused her eldest daughter and treated her like a slave - had to do all the cooking and cleaning etc. Daughter got the younger children ready for school while the mother slept. Mother didn't abuse the younger two , the eldest copped it. Extended family stood by and watched.
Community services were involved because of the abuse - father backed Mother so family wouldn't be split up. But Father finally had enough and after years of mother telling him to nick off so he did. Daughter old enough to choose - but not really a choice when mother didn't want love her - went with father - to escape the abuse and ridicule. Father had fortnightly access of one day on the weekend with 101 conditions. He broke one when he took his kids to see their grandfather at Christmas. Mother stopped him from having access.
Father had to return the courts to see his kids - didn't have the money or the balls.

Result - father not permitted to see his kids, has to fork out child support and in return does not even get to get a copy of the kids school report or anything. Sends them bithday and Christmas cards - kids told not to respond. Daughter sends gifts, they are returned with wbusive letters saying that the presents given were not what they asked for! Mother tells children it was the father who was abusive and brainwashes them that the father doesn't care. Mother removes changes the kids surnames without fathers consent.

Daughter tries to keep in contact with the siblings she loves. Mother makes this very difficult, continues abuse. Daughter still a teenager - no money, no car, can't get a lawyer herself loses her relationship wit her siblings. Mother uses this to tell them that their sister is selfish and doesn't care. Mother allows primary school aged siblings to write hateful and abusive letters to their sister telling her she is dead to them. Daughter still tries to see them at public events - siblings are told to tell her to **** off. Mother sends birth bracelet and maternal health care record to daughter in the post - that is all, no note or anything. Who does that? Daughter has two breakdowns and one suicide attempt. Not that anyone actually cared.

There are some crimes that go unpunished. There is real injustice in the world when parents abuse innocent kids like this. Kids have a right to know both of their parents and to find out for themselves what sort of person they are.

 

[BayView]

Life has changed, and women do have more power and opportunities these days.. it doesnt mean the death of marraige and family. I do want my husband to have power in the relationship, and to speak his mind clearly. If either of us is unhappy about something, I want to be able to discuss it and come up with a compromise. But having a good marraige doesnt mean I have to be a "50's wife". It just means we need to work through challenges and find a way where we are both respected and neither of us is downtrodden. It is possible...... but it takes work, from both sides. and every marraige is different, so the way it works in practice is different.... just because this wife works and this one doesnt is no guarantee of success or failure. Cookie cutter marraiges dont often work... life is far more complicated than that.

Great post, and this section is very good, very apt.

I had to beat my wife for many years to get her to think this way.

Just kidding.

We've been married 20 years next March, and together for 4 more before that.

From our experience together; it's all about compromise, sometimes biting your tongue (not hers ), trying to keep the romance in little ways, making effort to still be a couple.

Kids and finances are the real challenges; you love your kids, but they can test you, and your finances don't always go as you plan, so there are times when it seems very hard.

The key here is to discuss, discuss and discuss; listen and listen and be supportive.

Pretty easy really.

 

[china]

I know of a separation where the mother abused her eldest daughter and treated her like a slave - had to do all the cooking and cleaning etc. Daughter got the younger children ready for school while the mother slept. Mother didn't abuse the younger two , the eldest copped it. Extended family stood by and watched.
Community services were involved because of the abuse - father backed Mother so family wouldn't be split up. But Father finally had enough and after years of mother telling him to nick off so he did. Daughter old enough to choose - but not really a choice when mother didn't want love her - went with father - to escape the abuse and ridicule. Father had fortnightly access of one day on the weekend with 101 conditions. He broke one when he took his kids to see their grandfather at Christmas. Mother stopped him from having access.
Father had to return the courts to see his kids - didn't have the money or the balls.

Result - father not permitted to see his kids, has to fork out child support and in return does not even get to get a copy of the kids school report or anything. Sends them bithday and Christmas cards - kids told not to respond. Daughter sends gifts, they are returned with wbusive letters saying that the presents given were not what they asked for! Mother tells children it was the father who was abusive and brainwashes them that the father doesn't care. Mother removes changes the kids surnames without fathers consent.

Daughter tries to keep in contact with the siblings she loves. Mother makes this very difficult, continues abuse. Daughter still a teenager - no money, no car, can't get a lawyer herself loses her relationship wit her siblings. Mother uses this to tell them that their sister is selfish and doesn't care. Mother allows primary school aged siblings to write hateful and abusive letters to their sister telling her she is dead to them. Daughter still tries to see them at public events - siblings are told to tell her to **** off. Mother sends birth bracelet and maternal health care record to daughter in the post - that is all, no note or anything. Who does that? Daughter has two breakdowns and one suicide attempt. Not that anyone actually cared.

There are some crimes that go unpunished. There is real injustice in the world when parents abuse innocent kids like this. Kids have a right to know both of their parents and to find out for themselves what sort of person they are.

Very sad story indeed. But still I would like to find a good wife and get married. I hope this scenario doesn't happen to me.

 

[BayView]

I know of a separation where the mother abused her eldest daughter and treated her like a slave - had to do all the cooking and cleaning etc. Daughter got the younger children ready for school while the mother slept. Mother didn't abuse the younger two , the eldest copped it. Extended family stood by and watched.
Community services were involved because of the abuse - father backed Mother so family wouldn't be split up. But Father finally had enough and after years of mother telling him to nick off so he did. Daughter old enough to choose - but not really a choice when mother didn't want love her - went with father - to escape the abuse and ridicule. Father had fortnightly access of one day on the weekend with 101 conditions. He broke one when he took his kids to see their grandfather at Christmas. Mother stopped him from having access.
Father had to return the courts to see his kids - didn't have the money or the balls.

Result - father not permitted to see his kids, has to fork out child support and in return does not even get to get a copy of the kids school report or anything. Sends them bithday and Christmas cards - kids told not to respond. Daughter sends gifts, they are returned with wbusive letters saying that the presents given were not what they asked for! Mother tells children it was the father who was abusive and brainwashes them that the father doesn't care. Mother removes changes the kids surnames without fathers consent.

Daughter tries to keep in contact with the siblings she loves. Mother makes this very difficult, continues abuse. Daughter still a teenager - no money, no car, can't get a lawyer herself loses her relationship wit her siblings. Mother uses this to tell them that their sister is selfish and doesn't care. Mother allows primary school aged siblings to write hateful and abusive letters to their sister telling her she is dead to them. Daughter still tries to see them at public events - siblings are told to tell her to **** off. Mother sends birth bracelet and maternal health care record to daughter in the post - that is all, no note or anything. Who does that? Daughter has two breakdowns and one suicide attempt. Not that anyone actually cared.

There are some crimes that go unpunished. There is real injustice in the world when parents abuse innocent kids like this. Kids have a right to know both of their parents and to find out for themselves what sort of person they are.

Sounds like a normal day outside the Rosebud CES.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

the problem is that it swings towards "how can I control my wife", rather than how can we work together....... marry someone younger, who will let you earn all the money and stay home and look after the kids.

Penny, I honestly don't understand how you equate marrying someone younger, earning more and someone who stays home to controlling that person.

There are some men who prefer a wife who will stay home with the children, as they believe that at least one person should be home to raise children. It hardly equates to wanting to control their wife.

In relation to marrying soneone younger? Heck, I dunno where you get the control issue from that, either.

I'd like to ask you a serious question. If you had a female friend who stated to you that she intended to marry a younger guy, who stayed home with the kids and made little or no money, what would your reaction to her be? Would you say to her 'You just want to control him!'?

In relation to earning all the money? Well, if the wife is a stay at home wife, unless she has some sort of side business, he will be the one earning all the money. But I'm quite sure that is not what you were alluding to.

Time to get politically incorrect again. Women marry up. When was the last time you saw a female lawyer married to a mechanic? Getting back to evolutionary instinct, how many women are going to view a guy who makes less than she does, works in a lower status job than she does as someone who can protect and provide for her offspring? I'm not talking a few thousand dollars here, I'm talking a significant difference. Social status is exceedingly important to many women. As Dr. Warren Farrell says 'Men view women as sex objects, women view men as success objects'.

At work a few months back, I was chatting to a female co-worker who was recently divorced. I asked her what she was looking for in an ideal new husband? Her answer, while surprisingly frank, didn't shock me: 'A guy who earns at least six figures so that I can afford to stay home and raise children'.

I was pleasantly surprised by this answer because it's un-PC for a woman to acknowledge reliance on a man in this day and age. Now I can tell you, this young lady is feisty in the extreme, trying to control her would be like trying to control a cyclone. She has a very dominant nature. So she is looking for all the things you say a man wants in order to control a woman, yet the idea of someone trying to control her... as Bender would say 'Does not compute'.

Besides, I find that men that won't allow themselves to be dictated to by their wives, you know - guys with a spine and cajones, are not interested in controlling them, as they have enough confidence and self esteem to see her as a partner, not a slave. It's the guys with little or no confidence that try to control their women, mostly out of fear of losing her to someone else.