Rising sea levels or sinking land masses?

[Sunfish]

I've had an interest in the subject for years and read a great deal. Trust me: It's a con!

Most of it's supporters are watermelons, blind to logic.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Ah! So; the sea ice is not a problem, but the ice from the sold ground is......

Isn't it all still.......ice?

Forgive my ignorance, but I can't see how one is worse than the other; sea ice is frozen sea water from my understanding?

the issue is that sea ice is frozen saltwater.

as in, was there to begin with. if anything, if the sea ice were to melt, the ocean would recede because water expands as it freezes and contracts as it liquifies.

so in other words, if you freeze water in a glass and then defrost it, you still have the same amount of water, but the water height has reduced.

the issue is frozen water above sea level that used to be melt water, rainwater etc. this forms things like the ross ice shelf in antarctica, the whole of greenland and various glacial drifts.

if this ice melts to a large degree, then it's like dropping an iceblock in the glass of water. you will note that the level of water in the glass rises.

now - yes, the entire earth is a closed loop environmental system. we don't get chunks of ice falling from the sky into our oceans, so eventually the increased sea mass will lead to increased rainfall.

the other probelm we get is the changing of ocean currents and their temperatures which re-directs rainfall and changes weather patterns and de-salination of parts of the ocean.

so that's it in a nutshell.

 

[Sunfish]

as in, was there to begin with. if anything, if the sea ice were to melt, the ocean would recede because water expands as it freezes and contracts as it liquifies.

Not strictly correct. Ice displaces it's own WEIGHT of water, not VOLUME.

If the earth were to become warmer, there would be higher evaporation from the oceans and thus more precipitation in the high altitudes of the Antarctic, which never rise above freezing, ergo, some water will be shifted from the oceans to the glaciers.

Nothing is simple.

 

[wategos]

I've had an interest in the subject for years and read a great deal. Trust me: It's a con!

Most of it's supporters are watermelons, blind to logic.

the issue is that sea ice is frozen saltwater.

as in, was there to begin with. if anything, if the sea ice were to melt, the ocean would recede because water expands as it freezes and contracts as it liquifies.

Nooo.. the ice is floating with 10% above the water & most of it comes and goes every year, but the extents are decreasing. When it melts nothing happens to the sea level. It's also mostly fresh water ice floating in salt water, not salt water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_the_Arctic

the issue is frozen water above sea level that used to be melt water, rainwater etc. this forms things like the ross ice shelf in antarctica, the whole of greenland and various glacial drifts.

yes

 

[Sunfish]

Pack Ice Plugs Up Arctic
In winter, seawater freezes and forms a crust of ice called "pack ice". The area of floating ice, which makes up much of the ice cap in the Arctic Ocean, expands during winter to cover about 5% of the northern oceans and 8% of the southern oceans.

Icebergs are fresh water.

The tip of the "ice-berg." Everybody knows that most of an iceberg lies under the water, but most don't know that the amount beneath the surface varies from about 50% to 99%. The cause of the variation is largely in the amount of air that is trapped in the ice so affecting its buoyancy. An average iceberg will be about 80-90% beneath the surface. Very low lying pieces of ice of whatever size in the water are known as "growlers". These often have a green tinge to them.
They are known as growlers because they present a particular hazard to shipping with the small amount visible above the water and the colour making them especially difficult to see and therefore especially dangerous.

 

[BayView]

Learn about the topic at hand first - then express an opinion about it.

You mean like folk who blindly believe what is being fed to them?

I mean, here's just one example; millions have been told that the CT will reduce the temps. It turns out that it might reduce the temp by as much as 1/4000th of a degree.

Yet, people think it is a good thing - and scarily; many are those who are running the Country.

I don't need to whack up a couple of graphs here to know about the subject of "Climate Change" (as they so deftly spun it now that it has been shown the world isn't getting hotter).

Same as property; when have you seen me ever post a graph here? But I know a bit about it.

 

[BayView]

the issue is that sea ice is frozen saltwater.

as in, was there to begin with. if anything, if the sea ice were to melt, the ocean would recede because water expands as it freezes and contracts as it liquifies.

So, the ice expands the water and makes the sea level rise. Got that (basic high school physics - except we are talking about an ice block in a swimming pool in dimensions).

But; the sea levels are apparently rising due to the increased temp on the earth. Doesn't hotter air and water melt ice faster?

If this is true; how can the ice be increasing? Surely the ice would be melting as the earth heats up?

And if this is the case, then - as you wrote here - the melting ice would cause the sea to contract?

But the sea levels are rising I tells ya......

So, now we have increasing world and sea temps, which is causing the ice to melt, yet the sea levels are supposedly rising (it's only erosion) even though you say it makes the seas recede.

This whole argument reminds me of the bible where there is an answer for every eventuality - despite the glaring contradictions everywhere...."love thy neighbor..."an eye for an eye"......and other gems.

 

[wategos]

(as they so deftly spun it now that it has been shown the world isn't getting hotter).

it is getting hotter, no arguments there anymore

So, the ice expands the water and makes the sea level rise. Got that (basic high school physics - except we are talking about an ice block in a swimming pool in dimensions).

No

But; the sea levels are apparently rising due to the increased temp on the earth. Doesn't hotter air and water melt ice faster?

Yes

And if this is the case, then - as you wrote here - the melting ice would cause the sea to contract?

No

even though you say it makes the seas recede.

that was garbage


I give up

 

[Sunfish]

it is getting hotter, no arguments there anymore


No


Yes


No

that was garbage


I give up

Thanks for your thoughtful reply!

 

[BayView]

it is getting hotter, no arguments there anymore

Righto; check this.

It's not official Dept of Meteorology, but it's an interesting observation at the very least; it was frickin' hot way back then, and rained cats and dogs, and was bloody cold, so what's changed?

http://www.australian-information-stories.com/weather-facts.html

Note the dates.

If you blokes want to pin your hat on fractions of degrees then I feel sorry for you.

On sunday there was a frost on the ground at Bathhurst in the morning, and then it hit 30 degrees later during the race.

I mean; seriously.

I give up

You can give up anytime, so why now?

Don't give up yet; I'm just warming up.

 

[Sunfish]

as in, was there to begin with. if anything, if the sea ice were to melt, the ocean would recede because water expands as it freezes and contracts as it liquifies.

I've been trying to figure this out. It may be that you are referring to the top of the pack ice, in which case you would be correct: It would drop fractionally. But the level of the fluid part of the oceans would be totally unaffected.

 

[Ed Barton]

What's all the fuss about (that's a question, not a statement)?

Some people in low lying areas will have to relocate - not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

The Great Barrier Reef, while pretty, serves what purpose apart from tourism?

etc etc

 

[Sunfish]

The Great Barrier Reef, while pretty, serves what purpose apart from tourism?

Far more useful than ********* koalas.

 

[weg]

What's all the fuss about (that's a question, not a statement)?

Some people in low lying areas will have to relocate - not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

The Great Barrier Reef, while pretty, serves what purpose apart from tourism?

etc etc

You wouldn't be so flippant if you were a Tuvaluian, which makes me wonder when that place has been 'projected' to go under .

Add to that all the extreme weather events that have started and will continue to occur in the future such as hurricanes, cyclones, fires, flooding and tornadoes.

Now they're a new phenomena .

All this will cause mass global migration and border conflict.

The UN currently states that more refugees (ecologically induced migrants) are now displaced by environmental disasters than by war.

It's more than just those being tossed off their land because their island sunk, and some coral dying.

 

[Sunfish]

Do you believe all that rubbish Weg?

I'll bet you can't present one shred of scientific proof that Tuvalu is being swamped. Here-say of a tribal elder doesn't count.

Equally there is absolutely no convincing argument for increasing storms. Sailors have been wrecked by storms forever. The idyllic "South Pacific" is just in a musical.

 

[weg]

Do you believe all that rubbish Weg?

I'll bet you can't present one shred of scientific proof that Tuvalu is being swamped. Here-say of a tribal elder doesn't count.

Equally there is absolutely no convincing argument for increasing storms. Sailors have been wrecked by storms forever. The idyllic "South Pacific" is just in a musical.

I was kidding.

From statements I've read that the Tuvalu president has made, the projected sinking of the island has good economic 'windfall' potential .

Makes me think even he doesn't believe they're sinking, but is happy to milk it as much as he can.

 

[Sunfish]

Sorry mate. I didn't recognise the "sarcastic" smilie. Not one I use.

 

[The Fence]

Rising sea levels or sinking land masses?


Neither, nor.

It just is.

The recent volcano eruption in.....why bother.

 

[wategos]

Tuvalu is not sinking, but the 5mm per year sea level rise there (more than the 3mm global average) gives the country less than 100 years unfortunately. Australia & NZ have agreed to accept most of the residents.

Sea levels are rising (or even falling) at different rates around the globe for many reasons (earths rotation, currents, temperatures, land movements).

 

[Aaron Sice]

can some please tell me how these patches of seas rise independently of the surrounding water, and then adjacent to that we have the "sea level" sinking?

i mean really - it's pretty obvious the sea floor is sinking and rising in these parts - how else do you describe land being swallowed by the sea?

the land is not an island with it's surface fixed relative to the sky - the land is fixed relative to the crust of the earth. move the crust, move the land.

unless we have some serious gravitational issues with our core, in which case we're all stuffed, i cannot see how this is within the realms of newtonian physics.

i don't buy it.