Man Hours for Certain Jobs?

I don't know what to buy with the tools but have my grandpa, uncle and others to help (would be just the basics for the job - if I needed specialist tools I would assess whether it was more cost effective to rent them out or pay tradies more for them to use their own tools.)

My idea with the retired builders would be to pay them around $30/h - if they take their sweet time with coffee etc... well that's their prerogative. We will go over before they embark on each job the time length etc... so they wouldn't be taking double the time because we would come to an agreement of xyz $$$ for xyz job (win-win.)

But I understand warranties etc... could be a problem - so I will need to balance everything out - but as I've said I have support around me that can help with everything (who have experience unlike myself!)

I would think the Bunnings tradies (if they are in fact ex-tradies) would do a reasonable job. If they don't well they won't continue working for me. Worth a try though!

Feels like Grand Designs Project demands meets homeless persons budget... hope I have somewhere to live after its all over... :p
 
JWR said:
I don't know what to buy with the tools but have my grandpa, uncle and others to help
Click to expand...

I would like you to show these threads to your "good old days" grandpa and uncle. I'm sure they would love to know what's going on in your head! :eek:

Get some family opinion and debate going before you begin, and iron out that plan of attack. :D

Good luck!:)
 
Yes my grandpa (68) doesn't like the way I do business as he considers it 'undercutting' and 'ruthless' - I consider it Warren Buffett style of keeping costs low!

My Uncle (40) thinks I should go and do an Apprenticeship with him for 4 years!

IMO they both look from a 'builders' point of view where they want to pay fair prices and get a great finish. I look from an investors viewpoint - good quality for as cheap a price as possible.

Both are willing to help and guide me in the right direction though - and I won't be doing it cheaply at the expense of quality.
 
JWR said:
Geez I didn't realise I was creating such a stir :D

Just thinking out loud to try to get myself the cheapest price for the most profit!

I can afford to pay top dollar and still profit but don't want to if I don't have to! My budget is 'tight' for the purposes of wanting to build for a set price and make a set profit - but not in the sense that is 'has' to fall within that budget or I go broke.

I think $30/h is more than reasonable for a prolonged project with guaranteed work. If I can't find I didn't look hard enough. I don't plan to rip any tradies off - everyone here seems to think its just fine tradies ripping us off by charging $50-100 p/h though - so I will do my best to get a fair price for a large amount of work.

Wylie - I don't mean to always ask the same questions - I just want everyone's opinions as almost everyone here is wiser than me at most things in property and life :)

Thank you all for the advice - we shall see if I can achieve my goal :cool:
Click to expand...

You are seriously delusional:

* $30/hr is a wage, not a charge out rate. A charge out rate is approx. 2.5x to 4x wage. $50-$100/hr is ballpark but not the top end of the parameter.

* 1 residential dwelling is NOT a 'prolonged project with guaranteed work'! What happens if you go broke on the job because you clearly have NFI? Tradies will sting all first contact jobs, until the client can prove they can deliver a project to them time after time.

* You are exhausting yourself to get the maximum profit, when giving up a few % points will give you a little relief from the rigours of what you are trying to achieve. Do you have the very lowest interest rate %, or do you give up a few % points so you can have a feature that you require/desire on your loans?

* Buying tools for tradies to use? Bwahahahahahahahahaha


pinkboy
 
Yes all good points Pinkboy,

Average tradies charge those figures but as suggested before I will aim to find the cheapest who still deliver quality.

If the project works out there will be multiple dwellings in the pipeline...

No chance of going broke as I have sufficient equity across multiple assets. Worst case is: spend 10-20k - get 5-10k value (so lose money). Realise I've done it wrong. Get a builder to build for 150k or less. Still make profit.

I have stated earlier that I do not want to penny pinch if the project will take double the time. I do want to embark on the project slowly to gain knowledge/experience - but ultimately will not try to save $10k if I will lose $20k in lost rent from time blowouts.

As I said - generic tools which can be used for most things will likely be purchased - if I need specialist tools I will need to pay for it - in either higher tradie prices or renting the tools out.

And yes - I know I am delusional but this process will hopefully give me the skills to forge a long and successful property development/investment career!
 
JWR said:
As I said - generic tools which can be used for most things will likely be purchased - if I need specialist tools I will need to pay for it - in either higher tradie prices or renting the tools out.
Click to expand...

This is a good idea for an OB. I have all the basic tools like power saws, cordless and power drills, plane, grinder, hammer, nailbag, squares, levels, hand tools, sledgey and lump hammer, cement mixer, trailer, etc.

I don't have specialist tools like specific nail guns (coil, framing, finishing, decking), concrete saws, floor sanders, oxy gear, welders, etc. I hire these out if necessary.
 
JWR said:
Yes my grandpa (68) doesn't like the way I do business as he considers it 'undercutting' and 'ruthless' - I consider it Warren Buffett style of keeping costs low!

My Uncle (40) thinks I should go and do an Apprenticeship with him for 4 years!

IMO they both look from a 'builders' point of view where they want to pay fair prices and get a great finish. I look from an investors viewpoint - good quality for as cheap a price as possible.

Both are willing to help and guide me in the right direction though - and I won't be doing it cheaply at the expense of quality.
Click to expand...

That's reassuring to know they will pick up the losses for you.

Thier advice is spot on and you still want to ignore that???

They look form a builders point of view because that's what you are going to do...build...!!

You will struggle to get quality, even sound, building work done on the cheap.

Just a question, why arent Granpa and Uncle doing it for you...?
Surely they'd do it on the cheap for you and show you the ropes...?

Oh yeah...I forgot, Granpa thinks your a tightass and ruthless.


LOL @ Rolf...:D
 
JWR said:
I think $30/h is more than reasonable for a prolonged project with guaranteed work.
Click to expand...

Mate, it isn't.

So move on.

You won't get anyone doing anything for you.

As the 50,000 other posters have already said; get yer best quotes and do it...or don't
 
Hi JWR

There's a saying that
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
Click to expand...

I'm sure you'll learn a lot from the experience whatever happens, which should assist you should you ever venture into another similar deal.

There's some great feedback by other forum members, however, teaching your kids how to ride a bike is not done by theory alone, sooner or later they need to get on the bike and take a tumble or two whilst trying to master the required skills of balance and coordination. Preparation is key, practice is crucial, but you only become skilled at doing something, by actually doing it

Keep us posted on the good, bad & ugly
 
Various sayings apply here,

"Quality will be remembered long after the cost has been forgotten"

"You get what you pay for."
 
JWR you have no idea in what you are putting yourself into.

Working with apprentices and retired builders is like working with kids, they have no idea and are there to make your day more complicated.

Working for $30.00 per hr is working for $5.7 per hr.

$30.00 per hr
Out of this you have to pay the following fees and whats left is your wage, now you tell me who will work for $5.70/hr

10% GST
9% Super
30% company tax
20% tools and vehicle allowance, insurances, petrol
10% Workers Compensation
2% Public liability and contract works insurance

81% of tradie charge out is gone out of door.

I can hardly find tradies that know what BCA is let alone regulations of their own trade. But they all charge top dollar, they all have to be supervised and told how to do things.

I think you should open up one big blog and keep us updated daily, so we can all have a good read, that would be an interesting one, because man you have some ideas, soon you will discover a hot water.

:D
 
veseli said:
JWR you have no idea in what you are putting yourself into.

Working with apprentices and retired builders is like working with kids, they have no idea and are there to make your day more complicated.

Working for $30.00 per hr is working for $5.7 per hr.

$30.00 per hr
Out of this you have to pay the following fees and whats left is your wage, now you tell me who will work for $5.70/hr

10% GST
9% Super
30% company tax
20% tools and vehicle allowance, insurances, petrol
10% Workers Compensation
2% Public liability and contract works insurance

81% of tradie charge out is gone out of door.

I can hardly find tradies that know what BCA is let alone regulations of their own trade. But they all charge top dollar, they all have to be supervised and told how to do things.

I think you should open up one big blog and keep us updated daily, so we can all have a good read, that would be an interesting one, because man you have some ideas, soon you will discover a hot water.

:D
Click to expand...

Could not have put this better myself. Damn, and this poor tradie 'deserves' this!

pinkboy
 
I wonder how the banks and building inspector who needs to sign off at each stage would see this approach? Maybe JWR has enough funds in cash to not worry about this and do the whole project cash?

Keep us updated JWR, It is a very unusual concept.
 
Can do it all cash if need be then revalue - but will most likely get 60-70% LVR owner builder.

Will of course follow regulations etc... to make sure the home passes all tests.
 
rather than do the $30 method. why don't you get a proper builder for like 45-50 per hour and get a labourer for like $20 per hour.

as for cash - it's not worth it.

i would push for this amounts with carpentry and framing and rough in work
however when it comes tiling and plastering and painting where the finish is important it is best to pay for good quality trades.
 
Hi Melbournian,

Where do you find labourers for $20/h?

Planning to hire a builder to get the steel kit home to lock up stage (if $50/h that's fine.)

Will be my aim to hire one pro per area of expertise (electrician, plumber, builder etc...) and then the cheaper, less skilled assistants.
 
My son's a builder. Have built 3 houses myself, its not fun. Worst thing I ever did was hire a crew on an hourly basis. Absolutely cant wait to see how this turns out, bet we never hear a blow by blow description of the woes this novice will get into
 
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