Qld State Govt approves New Logan Planning Scheme. Start in May

[The Black Duck]

You can spilt the title of the dual occupancy by community strata titling the block. The paperwork cost $500 DIY or $2500 via a lawyer. If you have dual occupancy in place now under the old planning scheme. You do have a time limit of 12 months.

Hence, why I had not been active on this forum.

As I have been pushing two dual occupancies application through Logan City Council as we speak.

Then you send the two titles separately. The new owners then elect to self manage the body corporate.

Generally, a block of 900m2 was permissible for dual occupancy via Logan City Council. That has changed recently.

However, they are allowing now 801m2 under the old planning scheme.

If you are unsure if a block is allowed for dual occupancy, please lodge a pre-lodgement form with Logan City Council.

Once, Logan City Council have accept your pre-lodgement application and reply to you via email with an explain. Seek a town planner and lodge your application. My solicitor said you will not have any problems with an approval as you are replying upon their advice prior to lodgement of application.

 

[KathyK]

I am guessing when you mention 'East Logan', you're talking about suburbs east of the motorway like Rochedale South, Springwood, Daisy Hill, Shailer Park, Cornubia and Tanah Merah?

Yes, sorry that's what we call ourselves in this neck of the woods. Thanks for helping me get my head round our options. We have a residential 1000 block. You will have to excuse my ignorance on everything. We weren't expecting mum up for another 5 years. She had a health scare and has realised that aging in the inner city is difficult with no family support. I've only heen investigating our options for the last few months. No one we know has ever built or developed so its all a foreign concept for now.

To be honest I had only taken notice of the draft plan as a resident and was concerned about some of the initial plans for Springwood and Loganholme. We even had our councillors threaten to defect to Redlands over it. Im more concerned about Loganholme than Springwood. If they had extended the busway down to Loganholme and fixed the M1 on ramp on Beenleigh Redland Bay road, there would be no bother with what they are planning.

I wouldn't be buying any existing townhouse stock in Springwood or Shailer Park. There seems to be an over supply as it is.

 

[long haul]

I've been following the new planning scheme with great interest.

Last year I purchased a 3br highset in Daisy Hill on 1400sqm, with the intention of building a 100sqm auxillary unit in the rear of the lot. The zoning is Large Suburban, although I don't see any differences in what I am allowed to do compared to Suburban.

Here is what I hope to achieve via Dual Occ- 1 title:

Current property value $480k, gonna estimate $50k drop in value with half of the backyard lost =$430k

New build;

3bdr 100sqm dwelling of medium fit and finish, carport, storage shed =$140k
long driveway (runs down the side of single front block) =$30k

development and council costs & fees =$30k (rough guess, will need to educate myself on this)

approx $200k

Costs:

original purchase $480k
new build $200k
landscaping & fencing for both properties $30k

Total costs $710k

End value: very difficult to tell - no comparable yet. I expect that for a single title result I may be lucky to match my return on costs, as I am aware that bank valuers are harsh on valuing 'granny flats'. I need to figure out whether its worth adjusting my strategy to a 2-title approach, in order to extract some equity on completion.

Estimated rent (each will have its own fully fenced 700sqm land):

Current dwelling $480pw (drop from current $510pw)
New dwelling $440-500pw

Total rent $920-980pw

Any thoughts/suggestions/criticisms?
Should I be looking at a 2-title approach instead?
Should I look to do even more with the larger 1400sqm land size?

 

[RetireRich101]

Hi RetireRich101

Can you rent out the "auxiliary unit" to SEPARATE tenant with DUAL Occ on SINGLE title @ Logan area?

Thanks for clarification

Yes you can under new plan. Even if current plan, you can have aux units but the laundry has to be common with the 2 households. Not sure you can fence this off though as it defeats the purpose to have common llaundry. New plan allows complete separation

 

[Beanie Girl]

Last year I purchased a 3br highset in Daisy Hill on 1400sqm, with the intention of building a 100sqm auxillary unit in the rear of the lot. The zoning is Large Suburban, although I don't see any differences in what I am allowed to do compared to Suburban.

Any thoughts/suggestions/criticisms?
Should I be looking at a 2-title approach instead?
Should I look to do even more with the larger 1400sqm land size?

Hi long haul, to do more with the land, you need to get it rezoned!
The maximum net density for the land is 10 dwellings per hectare for 'Large Suburban'. I think your land must have previously been zoned R1000.
So by equivalent dwellings calculations,
1400 x 10/10000 = 1.4 equivalent dwellings
I don't think you can do a subdivision based on the precinct of the land and the concomitant maximum net density specified.

So the 100m 3 bedroom auxiliary unit might be the max you could do atm, that's still pretty good

Most of us are limited to 70m auxiliary units for our blocks under 1000m. Darn you, RR, and your corner block! Hahahaha! Joking !

Auxiliary units can be rented out to separate households but cannot be separately titled.

Auxiliary units and Secondary dwellings are not able to be separately titled or separately owned. Pg 185

Not sure if can be strata-titled the way Black Duck is describing it, but he's referring to dual occupancy houses (not aux units) in his scenario.

But at least no infrastructure charges for Auxiliary Units! So that's good news! And no need to apply for planning/development permit, just a building permit from a private certifier.

Council will not apply infrastructure charges for Secondary dwellings or Auxiliary units. This is to ensure the product remains an affordable and viable housing option. Pg 174

 

[long haul]

Hi long haul, to do more with the land, you need to get it rezoned!
The maximum net density for the land is 10 dwellings per hectare for 'Large Suburban'. I think your land must have previously been zoned R1000.
So by equivalent dwellings calculations,
1400 x 10/10000 = 1.4 equivalent dwellings
I don't think you can do a subdivision based on the precinct of the land and the concomitant maximum net density specified.

So the 100m 3 bedroom auxiliary unit might be the max you could do atm, that's still pretty good

Most of us are limited to 70m auxiliary units for our blocks under 1000m. Darn you, RR, and your corner block! Hahahaha! Joking !

Auxiliary units can be rented out to separate households but cannot be separately titled.

Auxiliary units and Secondary dwellings are not able to be separately titled or separately owned. Pg 185

Not sure if can be strata-titled the way Black Duck is describing it, but he's referring to dual occupancy houses (not aux units) in his scenario.

But at least no infrastructure charges for Auxiliary Units! So that's good news! And no need to apply for planning/development permit, just a building permit from a private certifier.

Council will not apply infrastructure charges for Secondary dwellings or Auxiliary units. This is to ensure the product remains an affordable and viable housing option. Pg 174

Wow Beanie Girl you're all over it. Thanks for the info. I'll read up on all options and be sure to consult LCC planners to see if there is any wiggle room on subdivision land size.

At worst a 100sqm dwelling with its own fenced yard feels more like a house than a granny flat and should hopefully rent well.

I wonder if strata-title is in fact possible. Or is it possible to build now with possible future zoning changes in mind? Is it possible to subdivide in the future where dwellings are already in place, as long as they conform with easements and setbacks ect?

 

[coffeetea]

I've been following the new planning scheme with great interest.

Last year I purchased a 3br highset in Daisy Hill on 1400sqm, with the intention of building a 100sqm auxillary unit in the rear of the lot. The zoning is Large Suburban, although I don't see any differences in what I am allowed to do compared to Suburban.

Here is what I hope to achieve via Dual Occ- 1 title:

Current property value $480k, gonna estimate $50k drop in value with half of the backyard lost =$430k

New build;

3bdr 100sqm dwelling of medium fit and finish, carport, storage shed =$140k
long driveway (runs down the side of single front block) =$30k

development and council costs & fees =$30k (rough guess, will need to educate myself on this)

approx $200k

Costs:

original purchase $480k
new build $200k
landscaping & fencing for both properties $30k

Total costs $710k

End value: very difficult to tell - no comparable yet. I expect that for a single title result I may be lucky to match my return on costs, as I am aware that bank valuers are harsh on valuing 'granny flats'. I need to figure out whether its worth adjusting my strategy to a 2-title approach, in order to extract some equity on completion.

Estimated rent (each will have its own fully fenced 700sqm land):

Current dwelling $480pw (drop from current $510pw)
New dwelling $440-500pw

Total rent $920-980pw

Any thoughts/suggestions/criticisms?
Should I be looking at a 2-title approach instead?
Should I look to do even more with the larger 1400sqm land size?

Hi long haul,

Wow you really know your numbers!

Just one question, when you say 3bdr new dwelling, do you mean 2bdr+1 study? My understanding is that for Auxiliary unit there are a maximum of two bedrooms.

 

[long haul]

Hi long haul,

Wow you really know your numbers!

Just one question, when you say 3bdr new dwelling, do you mean 2bdr+1 study? My understanding is that for Auxiliary unit there are a maximum of two bedrooms.

I assure you that as a development newbie I'm no where near comfortable with my numbers These are just rough numbers at this stage, maybe even a tad optimistic especially on the new build cost. I'm aiming for Jan build so still many months to research.

Thanks coffeetea for raising the question, it seems as of I have a lot more to read up on. Are there any restrictions on study size or is it essentially a case of simply naming one of the rooms a study?

Another question if I may - do carports that are attached to the structure of the house require to be included in the max footprint? What about detached carports?

 

[coffeetea]

Thanks coffeetea for raising the question, it seems as of I have a lot more to read up on. Are there any restrictions on study size or is it essentially a case of simply naming one of the rooms a study?

Another question if I may - do carports that are attached to the structure of the house require to be included in the max footprint? What about detached carports?

Trust me you are already a guru for someone as green as me. Sorry my knowledge about development is very limited so I can't provide you proper advise about the study and carport. But will wait for other peoples opinion as they are always helpful

 

[RetireRich101]

This is the information I got from LCC:

They received signoff from the State Government as per the announcement.
The scheme will go to the next full council meeting mid May 2015 for formal adoption.
The outcome of this meeting will determine the adaption date.
This adaption may be likely be end of May 2015

 

[Beanie Girl]

A Somersofter I know called Logan Council a few days ago to check if there was a minimum width of the side driveway to build an auxiliary unit. LCC said there is no minimum width required for the lot to have an auxiliary unit. RR is this the information you have from LCC too?

Information about 'auxiliary units'' from 'Submissions Response Report"

Additionally, the new planning scheme introduces a new type of development called 'Auxiliary Unit'. This development permits the development of small scale (70m2 to 100m2) units on existing sites, in all residential and rural zoned land in Logan. Pg 16

However the planning scheme's new Auxiliary unit development type allows for two dwellings on a single lot to be rented out separately. Auxiliary unit development is self-assessable provided it meets the relevant criteria, and would therefore not require an application to Council. Pg 175

Council will not apply infrastructure charges for Secondary dwellings or Auxiliary units. This is to ensure the product remains an affordable and viable housing option. Pg 174

Secondary dwellings and Auxiliary units are self-assessable in most locations provided they meet basic criteria. This means that no development application will need to be made if the secondary dwelling complies with the criteria in the Dwelling house and dual occupancy code. Building approval will still need to be obtained from a building certifier. pg 174

New types of uses such as Dual occupancy (Auxiliary unit) and the use of the equivalent dwelling definition provide for additional housing options. Pg 17

An Auxiliary unit development (previously known as "dual key") is classified as a "material change of use". This type of development can occur in an existing building provided that building meets the criteria of the relevant codes. Provided an existing granny flat is able to meet the Auxiliary unit self-assessable criteria (and any other applicable planning scheme criteria such as overlays), it could be reclassified as an Auxiliary unit and be rented out separately. No development permit is required if the proposal meets the self assessable criteria. Pg 18

The revised planning scheme allows you to build an Auxiliary unit (formerly Dual key) or Secondary dwelling on your property.The planning scheme has been amended so that both Auxiliary units and Secondary dwellings are now able to be detached and be separate from the primary dwelling, provided they are within 20m from the outermost projection of the main dwelling on the property. These housing types are intended to provide an alternative housing product that encourages a greater diversity of housing types throughout the city. You are able to rent out an Auxiliary unit to a separate household. A Secondary dwelling is not able to be rented out, but is intended for extended families or members of the same household. However, Auxiliary units and Secondary dwellings are not able to be separately titled or separately owned. Pg 185

It is acknowledged there are additional locations in the city that would be suitable for higher density development. Council will continue to investigate additional areas as required to appropriately plan for the city's projected growth. In the meantime, new types of uses such as Dual occupancy (Auxiliary unit) provide for additional housing options across Logan. Pg 30

The definition of "Secondary dwelling" does not permit this type of development to be titled separately. The definition is set by the Queensland Government and cannot be changed by Council. However, the planning scheme has a new dwelling type known as a Dual Occupancy "Auxiliary unit". If an existing secondary dwelling meets the requirements for an Auxiliary unit, one of the dwellings on the property could be rented on the private rental market. However it would not be possible to separately title the dwellings. The intention of the Auxiliary unit development type is to increase housing choice in Logan by allowing the development of small scale dwellings (that is, one or two bedrooms) alongside existing housing throughout the city. This approach will provide an additional dwelling to accommodate a family member, a separate person, a couple, or a family looking for a smaller home. Pg 37

The planning scheme's densities have been established to generally align with existing densities and do not aim to make wholesale changes across the city. In general, areas that are suitable for higher density development have been assigned zones and precincts that are appropriate for the location. New types of uses such as Dual occupancy (Auxiliary unit) and the use of the equivalent dwelling definition provide for additional housing options. The densities expressed in the planning scheme are therefore considered appropriate and have not been amended pg 48

The intention of the Auxiliary unit development type is to increase housing choice in Logan by allowing the development of small scale dwellings (that is, one or two bedrooms) alongside existing housing throughout the city. This approach will provide an additional dwelling to accommodate a family member, a separate person, a couple, or a family looking for a smaller home. A 100m2 dwelling is considered to be sufficient for this purpose. Council has decided to increase the permissible size to 100m2 in all residential zones on lots larger than 1,000m2. An Auxiliary unit dwelling with a maximum GFA of 70m2 is considered to be appropriate in urban residential zones on properties that are less than 1,000m2. Pg 62

The intention of the Secondary dwellings and Auxiliary unit type of development is to increase housing choice in Logan by allowing the development of small scale dwellings (that is, one or two bedrooms) alongside existing housing throughout the city. This approach will provide an additional dwelling to accommodate a family member, a separate person, a couple, or a family looking for a smaller home. An Auxiliary unit dwelling with a maximum gross floor area of 70m2 is considered to be appropriate for this purpose in urban residential zones on properties that are less than 1,000m2. Council has decided to increase the permissible size to 100m2 in all residential zones on lots larger than 1,000m2. Other development types such as Dual occupancy, Multiple dwellings, and subdivision allow for larger dwellings and may be possible depending on relevant zoning provisions. Pg 86

Site cover and floor area regulate the same issue and should be merged.
Site cover provisions address the overall intensity of use of a premises. The actual amount of developable land will vary based on the size of the site. The use of floor area is used to determine the scale of a particular use. For example, the floor area provision ensures Auxiliary unit development occurs at the intended scale. It is therefore necessary to maintain both site cover and floor area provisions as they are addressing different aspects of development. Pg 245

 

[RetireRich101]

A Somersofter I know called Logan Council a few days ago to check if there was a minimum width of the side driveway to build an auxiliary unit. LCC said there is no minimum width required for the lot to have an auxiliary unit. RR is this the information you have from LCC too?

the 'side driveway', I guess you mean the access handle9similar to battle axe) to the aux unit?
Correct i am not seeing anywhere in the LCC document that a 2.5m or 3.5m is width access is required to the aux unit.
There also no mention the min lot size to build an aux unit. Does this mean on a small lot of 350m2, you can have a say 120m2(main house) attached to a 70m2 (aux unit)?

In NSW the min lot size you can build is 450m2, no requirement for car space or open space, or access handle to the granny flat.

 

[RetireRich101]

In NSW, max is 60m2. some called it a shoe box, some believe its enough single mother and her child.

the LCC 70m2 allows attached garage I believe. If you move the laundry to the garage, you could fit a small sized 3 bedroom, or 2 reasonable size bedroom + lounge. Avoid brick as it eats 3-5m2 into your floor space.

 

[Beanie Girl]

There also no mention the min lot size to build an aux unit. Does this mean on a small lot of 350m2, you can have a say 120m2(main house) attached to a 70m2 (aux unit)?

I think it depends on 2 factors - Gross Floor Area (GFA) and Site Cover

The Revised Logan documents don't seem to specify the 'maximum site cover' for a Dwelling house or Dual occupancy (auxiliary unit) for Low Density Residential Zone (LDR), 'Suburban' precinct

I can only find 'maximum site cover' for the following under 'Development Codes'

Dwelling house or Dual occupancy (auxiliary
unit) has a maximum site cover of:
(a) 40 per cent in the Low density residential
zone?Large suburban precinct;
(b) 35 per cent in the Low density residential
zone?Small acreage precinct;
(c) 20 per cent or 700m2
, whichever is greater,
in the Low density residential zone?Acreage
precinct;
(d) in the Rural residential zone:

(i) 20 per cent or 700m2
, whichever is
greater, in the Park living precinct or
Park residential precinct; or​

(ii) 10 per cent or 700m2 , whichever is
greater, in the Carbrook precinct or
Cottage rural precinct;​

(e) 10 per cent or 700m2
, whichever is greater,
in the Emerging community zone,
Environmental management and
conservation zone or Rural zone

 

[ashalim]

I have to read this thread a few times to understand what everyone's talking about I think haha. But I just got a 703sqm corner block in Woodridge currently under contract...so I'm excited

 

[Beanie Girl]

I have to read this thread a few times to understand what everyone's talking about I think haha. But I just got a 703sqm corner block in Woodridge currently under contract...so I'm excited

Congrats Ashalim on getting a corner lot in Woodridge, You can speak to a Logan planner about dual occupancies (second full size house) on the block and possibility of subdivision down the track. Minimum lot size for corner blocks is 350m I think but I'm not 100 % sure, have to check it out. Planning documents are notorious for being 'vague' or can have more than one interpretation.

 

[RetireRich101]

Congrats Ashalim on getting a corner lot in Woodridge, You can speak to a Logan planner about dual occupancies (second full size house) on the block and possibility of subdivision down the track. Minimum lot size for corner blocks is 350m I think but I'm not 100 % sure, have to check it out. Planning documents are notorious for being 'vague' or can have more than one interpretation.

There is confusion in the LCC new plan.
It appears you can subdivide a corner block of 700m2 into 2 x 350m2. The Reconfigure of a Lot code requires an average lot size in the Suburban precinct to be 500m. As such to subdivide the lot you would need 1000m

Here is my view of what you can or cant do for a 701m2 corner lot.

Can't do (for corner lot)
Can not subdivide into 2 x 350m2 lots, and sell the lots individually
You can not build 100m2 aux unit under new plan

Can do (for corner lot)
Keep existing house, apply for dual occupancy and build at rear
You can then community strata title, hence effectively sell them individually.
The configuration will adhere to equivalent net density meaning it is not limited to number of bedrooms you can have on either dwellings.
You can knock down existing house, build detached or attached(just like duplex), and community strata tile (note this approach will incur 2 sets of infra fee approx 2 x $28k)
Since 701m2 corner meets all requirement for dual occ, the DA I assume will be smooth sailing.
Even your existing dwelling is not ideally shifted to one side, allowing less space to build new dwelling, it shouldn't be a problem. You dont need to have one dwelling on 350m2 evenly.

Community strata title is not as clean/good as a subdivision into 2 lots, but in this scenario it is as good. Don't forget subdivision will allow you to sell of the 'vacant' land after subdivided, but it will also incur extra cost for the subdivision, and one I could think of is council will get you pay for the infra fee for the new lot you created before you can sell it off...

 

[RetireRich101]

I have to read this thread a few times to understand what everyone's talking about I think haha. But I just got a 703sqm corner block in Woodridge currently under contract...so I'm excited

Congrats, corner 700m2 is hard to come by now in LCC

yes, agreed. I think the more you read, the more confusing it becomes

LCC really shouldn't be muddled up with the auxiliary unit with dual occupancy, because in their scheme they used Dual Occupancy (auxiliary units)

I would simply accept if Granny Flat was used instead of Dual Occupancy (auxiliary units)

 

[Sequin]

If you demolish and build 2 - won't you get an infrastructure charge credit for one?

 

[Encarta]

Here is my view of what you can or cant do for a 701m2 corner lot.

..

How lenient are the council on block corner size for dual living dev? I have 2 corner blocks in Logan both 685m2