Purchasing 5 star house but has not insulation in walls as per energy report.
- Thread starter carlau
- Start date
So bascially you cant do anything, as the laws in victoria are bad enough as I see so many homes today being built that require insulation to acheive the 5 star and some builders dont even use weather foil.
Like my neighbour who I saw ripping off the plaster of his new home which was meant to have insulation and the builder had no intentions of doing anything, very sad story and the house is only a few months old.
can't really see the problem ....
have your solicitor place a clause in the contract that the vendor will gaurantee the walls are insulated as stated or the contract will be recinded and all costs incurred will be carried by the vendor.
not really sure why these sorts of questions are asked on a forum when they should be directed to your soli......
rossv
have your solicitor place a clause in the contract that the vendor will gaurantee the walls are insulated as stated or the contract will be recinded and all costs incurred will be carried by the vendor.
not really sure why these sorts of questions are asked on a forum when they should be directed to your soli......
rossv
Carlau,
You can get things moving by knowing where the pressure points are, then, push it there. Keep a cool head and you can go a long way.
The last time I touched these things was around 5 years ago but I think things are still the same.
1. Get hold of critical paperwork
As the builder (nicely, of course) to get copies of Certificate of Insurance, Certificate of Occupancy, Electrical Certificate and Plumbing Certificate (to cover your back - You'll need these). By law, the builder has to provide these but in practice, they won't give until full payment is made.
2. Verify that the insulation is done to building law standard
Get an expert in to verify the facts. Best to use an independent builder or building inspector who know what they have to do. The aim is to ensure you are on the right side before starting a fight with the builder. He is a professional whereas you are not.
3. If the insulation is factually not to building standard
One option to get the builder moving is to contact the Inspector (I think that's what it calls) from the Building Commission www.buildingcommission.com.au
They can do wonder
Remember, at all times, keep it nice and calm with the builder. Don't burn the bridge. By the end of the day, the easiest, quickest and cheapest outcome is for the builder to come back to complete work the way it's meant to be.
You can get things moving by knowing where the pressure points are, then, push it there. Keep a cool head and you can go a long way.
The last time I touched these things was around 5 years ago but I think things are still the same.
1. Get hold of critical paperwork
As the builder (nicely, of course) to get copies of Certificate of Insurance, Certificate of Occupancy, Electrical Certificate and Plumbing Certificate (to cover your back - You'll need these). By law, the builder has to provide these but in practice, they won't give until full payment is made.
2. Verify that the insulation is done to building law standard
Get an expert in to verify the facts. Best to use an independent builder or building inspector who know what they have to do. The aim is to ensure you are on the right side before starting a fight with the builder. He is a professional whereas you are not.
3. If the insulation is factually not to building standard
One option to get the builder moving is to contact the Inspector (I think that's what it calls) from the Building Commission www.buildingcommission.com.au
They can do wonder
Remember, at all times, keep it nice and calm with the builder. Don't burn the bridge. By the end of the day, the easiest, quickest and cheapest outcome is for the builder to come back to complete work the way it's meant to be.
The Energry Reprort stats that all the walls have R2.5 Batts and the Roof to have R3.5 Batts and its also stated on the building plans.
Its a two story house, all brick downstairs and the upper level he has blueboard with render and some parts are brick and all timber frame with concrete roof tiles.
He had a building inspector write up a report and told him he has come across of alot of new homes that are not built correctly today as per plans and have no insulation as per energy report and the owners don't even no they don't have insulation when they think they have, sad.
Hi Carlau
My husband and I are builders and I am also an accredited house rater (HER). When house plans are submitted for a building permit, copies of the Energy rating report (which state the energy requirements needed to achieve 5 stars compliance) have to be submitted along with it. The plans are also stamped by the rater to identify them and sometimes also list the requirements on the plans themselves.
Due to the charges that some of the early HER's were charging to assess compliance on each home and the fact that many building inspectors charged just as much if not more to return to check the same requirements some councils, ours included, decided that the builder could sign off a disclaimer to state that all requirements had been adhered to, thus allowing the building inspector to issue the final C of O without inspecting the aspects of the 5 star requirements himself.
The three copies submitted for the permit go to the building inspector, the local council and to the builder and will all have a stamp from the energy rater identifying him/herself. The building inspector should be able to tell you who inspected the 5 star compliance of the home.
The Housing Guarantee Fund (HGFL) has been gone for over 10 years now. The current laws on warranty insurance are managed by the Building Commission and are probably not applicable in this case as it only provides insurance to you for faulty and defective workmanship and/or materials and then is only applicable if the builder is bankrupt, no longer licenced or deceased. Within that 6.5 years of warranty cover there are varying levels of cover for certain parts of your home i.e some things such as certain floorings are covered for far less than the 6.5 years. Many people do not understand what and how warranty insurance really is and many builders don't understand it enough themselves in order to educate clients initially. In saying that the BC could still provide you with advice on whether there is any action you can take and with whom.
Before you do anything, make sure you check and understand the facts. Only external walls (and sometimes the walls between a garage and house) need to be insulated. If your home is double brick down below then the inherent R rating of this wall type may have meant that it wasn't needed on these walls but only on the walls of the upper level. The only way that you will know for sure is to remove sections of plaster and until you see and understand the 5 star report you won't know where it was meant to be installed. There are also many types of wall insulation now; not just the traditional fattbatts, some even look like sisalation but have air pockets (like bubble wrap) so what you think may be only sizalation may not be! The only regulated requirement is that a house built after June 05 has to achieve 5 stars and have either a solar how water heater or a rainwater tank connected to flushing devices. Insulation is not mandatory but is frequently used as a cheaper way to improve a homes rating before the more expensive options are considered. Basically what I am saying is that it may have not been stated in the report that all walls needed insulation so make sure you get a copy of the report and know that you understand it before you start getting too worked up.
Julie
My husband and I are builders and I am also an accredited house rater (HER). When house plans are submitted for a building permit, copies of the Energy rating report (which state the energy requirements needed to achieve 5 stars compliance) have to be submitted along with it. The plans are also stamped by the rater to identify them and sometimes also list the requirements on the plans themselves.
Due to the charges that some of the early HER's were charging to assess compliance on each home and the fact that many building inspectors charged just as much if not more to return to check the same requirements some councils, ours included, decided that the builder could sign off a disclaimer to state that all requirements had been adhered to, thus allowing the building inspector to issue the final C of O without inspecting the aspects of the 5 star requirements himself.
The three copies submitted for the permit go to the building inspector, the local council and to the builder and will all have a stamp from the energy rater identifying him/herself. The building inspector should be able to tell you who inspected the 5 star compliance of the home.
The Housing Guarantee Fund (HGFL) has been gone for over 10 years now. The current laws on warranty insurance are managed by the Building Commission and are probably not applicable in this case as it only provides insurance to you for faulty and defective workmanship and/or materials and then is only applicable if the builder is bankrupt, no longer licenced or deceased. Within that 6.5 years of warranty cover there are varying levels of cover for certain parts of your home i.e some things such as certain floorings are covered for far less than the 6.5 years. Many people do not understand what and how warranty insurance really is and many builders don't understand it enough themselves in order to educate clients initially. In saying that the BC could still provide you with advice on whether there is any action you can take and with whom.
Before you do anything, make sure you check and understand the facts. Only external walls (and sometimes the walls between a garage and house) need to be insulated. If your home is double brick down below then the inherent R rating of this wall type may have meant that it wasn't needed on these walls but only on the walls of the upper level. The only way that you will know for sure is to remove sections of plaster and until you see and understand the 5 star report you won't know where it was meant to be installed. There are also many types of wall insulation now; not just the traditional fattbatts, some even look like sisalation but have air pockets (like bubble wrap) so what you think may be only sizalation may not be! The only regulated requirement is that a house built after June 05 has to achieve 5 stars and have either a solar how water heater or a rainwater tank connected to flushing devices. Insulation is not mandatory but is frequently used as a cheaper way to improve a homes rating before the more expensive options are considered. Basically what I am saying is that it may have not been stated in the report that all walls needed insulation so make sure you get a copy of the report and know that you understand it before you start getting too worked up.
Julie
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If report says that all walls have 2.5R batts, and it doesn’t say that only external walls have insulation.
I’d say it is enforceable, even if it were not required.
Having said that, you might have to go through few levels of court to win it, when court proceedings could cost up to value of the house, so in few words: NOT WORTH IT.
My neighbour didnt even have any weather foil installed in the upper level, I was shocked. It was rendered blueboard and plaster.
The house was completed Sept 2006 and has no solar hot water heater or a rainwater tank, tiles down stairs with floorboards on upper level of home.
He was going to go through vcat as the builder said he didnt have to install insulation even though its stated all over the building plans and energry report. He purchased the house after it was completed in late Dec 2006.
So my neighbour is basically either meant to have solar hot water or rain water tank as it was built in 2006 ?
Every time he "my neighbour" called the builder he would say take me to court, how can someone like that even be a builder.
Firstly, Carlau put a very good post that you need to check everything.
So assuming you have, spend some $$$ and get legal advice on where is the best area to put your pressure to gain the outcome you want.
Council usually do everything they can to remove liability. I would surprised if the is any hope there.
The builder may be a large operator who would not like any bad press. Or he may be a dodgy $2 company and happy to go belly up should you spend $$ to get a legal finding against him. Think Alan Bond.
Gov will care but unlikely to help out with $$.
Certifier is the same situation as builder.
You know going to Today Tonight is not a bad idea.
As an ex residential builder myself IMHO when they took inspections away from Council inspectors who were all crusty old ex builder *******s who loved getting it absolutely right, they stuffed up the system.
Privatisation failed!
Peter 14.7
So assuming you have, spend some $$$ and get legal advice on where is the best area to put your pressure to gain the outcome you want.
- Council
- Builder
- Gov
- Certifier
Council usually do everything they can to remove liability. I would surprised if the is any hope there.
The builder may be a large operator who would not like any bad press. Or he may be a dodgy $2 company and happy to go belly up should you spend $$ to get a legal finding against him. Think Alan Bond.
Gov will care but unlikely to help out with $$.
Certifier is the same situation as builder.
You know going to Today Tonight is not a bad idea.
As an ex residential builder myself IMHO when they took inspections away from Council inspectors who were all crusty old ex builder *******s who loved getting it absolutely right, they stuffed up the system.
Privatisation failed!
Peter 14.7
I no when my house was built I kept a close eye on everything, and if I didn't there would have been a few stuff ups.
The paint job they did was horrible, and when I asked them to paint the walls again as some places you could still see the plaster they dragged it on for months and I was left painting the walls myself.
Its all about how fast they can finish the job and get to the next job, take your money and run. The builder that built my neighbors house with no insulation and no solar hot water or rain water tank builds approx 300 houses a year.
I'm just curious so all houses that are being built today require either a solar hot water system or rain water tank ?
Seeing how my neighbor was treated by the builder has really opened my eyes to double check everything when buying or building.
JFisher thanks for the info on warranty insurance as I never knew that.
The paint job they did was horrible, and when I asked them to paint the walls again as some places you could still see the plaster they dragged it on for months and I was left painting the walls myself.
Its all about how fast they can finish the job and get to the next job, take your money and run. The builder that built my neighbors house with no insulation and no solar hot water or rain water tank builds approx 300 houses a year.
I'm just curious so all houses that are being built today require either a solar hot water system or rain water tank ?
Seeing how my neighbor was treated by the builder has really opened my eyes to double check everything when buying or building.
JFisher thanks for the info on warranty insurance as I never knew that.
My neighbor removed all the PowerPoint's and light switches in the house and used a small mirror with a torch to deflect the light up into the wall cavity to see if there was any insulation as the house was very hot and also drilled small holes in the walls before he approached the builder asking him to remove the plaster and install the insulation as stated on the energy report and building plans.
When the builder refused to help him, he started to remove the plaster from the walls himself and installed the insulation himself and plasters who installed the plaster back on, don't ask me how much it cost him but it was well over $10,000
