Miserable Property Investors - WDYT?

[heidi]

"Do you feel happy? Or is there an emptiness in it all? I know three serial, hard-core property investors - Two of the couples are miserable, money obsessed sad cases; one of the couples are sort of happy, but still sort of outcasts in the scheme of everyday life, who live life in a miserly manner even though they're loaded. Basically all three couples have achieved massive wealth through property, but live poorly."

The above was my reply to another thread, and it's something I've been thinking about lately. There seems to be an expectation of owning a heap of properties to be "successful", yet most of those investors that I know that have achieved this, are somewhat.....miserable??? miserly?? missing out on life??? WDYT?

 

[Piston Broke]

There are plenty of rich miserable people, and plenty of poor miserable people.
Rich and or successful does not mean working 60hr a week for a 6 figure wage and have no money by next pay check. That's miserable.
Though they don't like hearing this.

Basically all three couples have achieved massive wealth through property, but live poorly.

And what do you call "massive wealth"?
I know more happy people that are wealthy than not.
And those who are wealthy but not happy sure have a lot more options.

 

[Jonril]

Miserly hell yes, miserable not so much.

I wear my frugality as a badge of honour.

Can't say we are "hardcore" PI investors.

I'd like to think we are "sensible" investors. With a good dose of delayed gratification.

 

[twobobsworth]

Money doesn't buy you happiness, but it lets you arrive at your problems in style.

 

[our obsession]

I would say I was happy pre investing, 'and' happy investing.

Investing is another of life's opportunities I'm fortunate enough to do and enjoy.

Again, I do what I love, and love what I do, it's never been a difficult task or an arduous task-(that's not to say I've not faced challenges, despair or sadness), but life is so precious...to invest or not invest for that matter is not a pre-requisite for my contentment or happiness in life, I just happen to be the person I am who loves life with great passion and enthusiasm.

Joie de vivre .

 

[rugrat]

Considering my first IP hasn't even settled yet (kitchen goes in any day now ), I am not sure I am qualified to answer yet, but I will anyway.

I think miserable people will be miserable with or without money. Money does make some things in life easier though and can eleviate some stressors (like having to worry about how you will pay a doctors bill when the kids get sick and you have less then $5 left until next payday). I would hope that I will be as happy when I have significant investments as I am now - that is all I ask, because my life is pretty good as it is, more money would just be the icing on the cake.

 

[jingo]

I would say I was happy pre investing, 'and' happy investing.

Investing is another of life's opportunities I'm fortunate enough to do and enjoy.

Again, I do what I love, and love what I do, it's never been a difficult task or an arduous task-(that's not to say I've not faced challenges, despair or sadness), but life is so precious...to invest or not invest for that matter is not a pre-requisite for my contentment or happiness in life, I just happen to be the person I am who loves life with great passion and enthusiasm.

Joie de vivre .

Our obsession has expressed my own thoughts on this topic much more eloquently than I could have.

Suffice to say that I think it inappropriate to tar all property investors with the title "Miserable Property Investors." All people are individuals. Quiet possibly, the people mentioned in the example may have been miserable regardless of their investment achievements/wealth status.

It has been my experience that misconceptions regarding wealthy people arise from those who are not......

Regards Jason.

 

[weg]

I personally know quite a few property investors and wouldn't say that any are stand out miserable. Then again I don't hang out with miserable people so that could explain why.

If anything the ones I know appear empowered and have a positive spin on life. Even the ones that live modestly but don't have to, seem happy living as they do.

Could being positive be the trait that leads investors to investing in the first place?

 

[Propertunity]

There are plenty of rich miserable people, and plenty of poor miserable people.

^ ^ ^
What he said.

It is not the money (or lack thereof) that makes people happy or miserable....although rich people are generally more happy in the surveys I've seen done.

Being rich just gives you a different set of probelms to deal with than when poor. But in this world at least, there are going to be problems, rich or poor.

Actually I tried poor and from personal experience I couldn't recommend it.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

They aren't miserable because of investing. You're just using that as a catalyst to project your own beliefs about investing in general. They are miserable because they refuse to acknowledge the root cause of their misery and do something about it.

 

[Rolf Latham]

Jim Rohn said

If you get wealthy by being cheap, when u are wealthy, u will still be cheap........


ta
rolf

 

[Piston Broke]

The financial means are just an amplifier of whatever the character.
Whatever they like, lots of $$ allows them to buy more.
If they like booze, hookers, drugs, casinos, cigars, gambling, fast cars, fast women, travelling, jewelry, shoes etc the same applies.
Those that don't have the $$ are miserable cause they cant afford it, those that have the $$ become miserable cause they can do it.
It's also why most lotto winners end up broke again.

 

[Sunfish]

I doubt that otherwise "normal" people become scrooges because they happen upon property investing any more than "normal" people take on the characteristics associated with jobs/professions. You don't suddenly grow a bain because you get a job as a rocket scientist.

I've noticed entrepreneurs (in small business anyway) seem to enjoy their money and life but that is probably what made them successful anyway.

 

[Perp]

I've noticed entrepreneurs (in small business anyway) seem to enjoy their money and life but that is probably what made them successful anyway.

That's an interesting point. I think if you feel you want (and can have) a certain lifestyle, it creates an expectation that you'll have the income to support that lifestyle, and motivates you to make it a reality.

Why? Because you get motivated when what you have falls short of what you expect. Any disconnect between your expectations and reality will spur your efforts to change your reality.

And that's why you largely get what you expect out of life.

If you expect that wealth is at best temporary and that you'll always - or at least sometimes - struggle to cover the necessities, then having wealth won't change that core belief, and thus you'll be unable to use your wealth; it'll just be a bigger buffer against the rainy day you're sure is coming.

On the other hand, if you expect that there'll always be enough to live in a certain style, there probably will be.

 

[Bargain Hunter]

They are miserable because they refuse to acknowledge the root cause of their misery and do something about it.

As Mark says, we need to consider the root of the problem. If they have become rich as a by product of doing something they love, then chances are they are going to be happy. If on the other hand they are slogging away at something that they hate simply because it is the best way they have found to make money then chances are they will be unhappy unless they have a life outside of the money making activity.

Also what where their motivations for becoming rich? If they have become rich to prove their worth to someone else then they are probably not that happy, particularly if the someone else does not recognise their success.

Perhaps they thought they would be more popular if they were rich, and they are; however they can never be sure if people would love them if they weren't rich.

The financial means are just an amplifier of whatever the character.
Whatever they like, lots of $$ allows them to buy more.
If they like booze, hookers, drugs, casinos, cigars, gambling, fast cars, fast women, travelling, jewelry, shoes etc the same applies.
Those that don't have the $$ are miserable cause they cant afford it, those that have the $$ become miserable cause they can do it.
It's also why most lotto winners end up broke again.

I was discussing this idea with Debbie the other day. Morality versus opportunity. It is easy to be righteous when there is no temptation, however given the right (or wrong) circumstances will someone follow their moral code or take a detour?

Being rich provides more opportunities. What you do with them is up to you.

Regards

Andrew

 

[pulse]

Great thread,

My grandfather once said, if you have nothing and have worries, then wait until you have something, then you'll know what worries are..

Time and time agin you see posts here from people stressed out about their tenants, or rates or any of the many headaches property investing provides. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

Successful investing (at least on modest incomes) requires sacrifice and I'm sure many of us are pretty frugal. All of us have a "save now for later" attitude, the problem is that there may not be a pay-off. We should be spending our time and money on relationships, and on life and emotional education for our children, that will make us happy. Who cares if you die with 2 properties or 20? I know the dream is to retire at 50 with enough passive income but the reality is that rarely happens, most of us would be pretty resistant to spend the money we've spent so long earning and continue the frugal living, worrying about knife cuts on the laminate benchtops.

Cheers
Pulse

 

[RumpledElf]

They aren't miserable because of investing. You're just using that as a catalyst to project your own beliefs about investing in general. They are miserable because they refuse to acknowledge the root cause of their misery and do something about it.

Oh, that's an absolute ripper of a quote there Mark

I'm in between IPs at the moment. The first paid for itself and a fair fraction of our PPoR mortgage, this next one will pay for both. But if we had more money I'm not sure what we'd do with it ... I could see the other half having an entire room for shoes, but you don't exactly need to be filthy rich for that. As it is we have slightly more money than we need to live comfortably, and that excess seems to just get eaten up by renovating and stuff. We won't actually *need* to be complete misers to get debt free and financially independant. Once that point arrives though ... er ... what do you do? Just set the bar higher?

 

[Dazz]

They aren't miserable because of investing. You're just using that as a catalyst to project your own beliefs about investing in general.

Fully agree. Well said.

 

[Dazz]

Who cares if you die with 2 properties or 20?

Um, from what I've seen so far in my short life about winding up estates, I'd say quite a few people.....especially the adult children of the deceased.

 

[GoAnna!]

"Do you feel happy? Or is there an emptiness in it all? Basically all three couples have achieved massive wealth through property, but live poorly."

To be honest those comments say more about your own opinions than the lifestyles and happiness of successful property investors.

Many people do not create wealth to live materially opulant lifestyles but rather for a myriad of reasons. For example freedom of how to spend your time with sufficient money to follow passions. Many wealthy people are smart enough to know that material possessions doesn't equal happiness. Does it make us feel empty that we are not locked into two full-time jobs just to pay our mortgage and baisc bills? Not so much The freedom to cycle with the kids up to school and music jam on Monday afternoons - priceless. You might think I should upgrade my 15 year old car and bike for a Merc and buy some diamonds and have more overseas trips but the thing is I am living as I choose. And we are as happy as most people are most of the time.