Losing job

[JD86]

Hi guys,

this morning my boss advised me, and all 4 other staff, that he cannot continue to keep the business running - we are all being made redundant.

He has given us 4 weeks notice. He said he will pay us our owing annual leave in full.

I have been a full time employee for him for 4 years.

Am I entitled to some sort of redundancee package or is the 4 weeks notice sufficient?

This is the first time I have been in such a situation, I am not sure how to find out.

Can anyone help?

I am a draftsman if that helps

Thanks

 

[pennyk]

I think in a small business, less than 20 or 25 people, no redundancy packages are required to be paid.

But it may depend upon your employment contract, if you received one.

 

[josko]

Hi josh,

That is really sad news and I feel for you.

Agree with Penny and if not:

I thought it was 8 weeks pay if employed for 4-5 years...but under 4 it's 4 weeks. Are you sure of the 4 years?

Regards JO

 

[Dawn]

http://www.fairwork.gov.au/termination/redundancy/pages/default.aspx

 

[Aaron Sice]

sorry to hear - it's always so stressful losing your job.

if you get stuck in Melbourne, there's plenty of work advertised here in the West.

cheers.

 

[Dazz]

...Pursuant to Dawn's excellent link....

Under the National Employment Standards (NES), an employer who is defined as a small business employer is not required to provide redundancy pay.

A small business employer, for the purpose of determining redundancy pay under the NES, is an employer who employs fewer than 15 employees

 

[tom32]

I would have thought Labor would have fixed that up?

Of all the things to have not changed why leave that? I guess small business is not where their union membership is generally employed and if they are they are covered by industry redundancy schemes anyway...

As far as I am concerned any employer has a staff member on for x years they should have to pay x times 2 weeks up to a cap of 20weeks like most awards.

If the employee has committed for x number of years surely that is a small price to pay. That said their should be no unfair dismissal laws (apart from obvious equity / fairness issues) and this process should be easy for business as long as they pay that price.

Sorry to hear that JD86, as Aaron said check out WA there are still opportunities for construction professionals over here;

http://mycareer.com.au/jobs/perth/construction-architecture/drafting/?s=151

 

[Cdro]

Hi guys,

this morning my boss advised me, and all 4 other staff, that he cannot continue to keep the business running - we are all being made redundant.

He has given us 4 weeks notice. He said he will pay us our owing annual leave in full.

I have been a full time employee for him for 4 years.

Am I entitled to some sort of redundancee package or is the 4 weeks notice sufficient?

This is the first time I have been in such a situation, I am not sure how to find out.

Can anyone help?

I am a draftsman if that helps

Thanks

Hi JD, sorry to hear about your job.

Unfortunately, under the National Employment Standards, if less than 15 people are employed by the business, (not including casuals), then there is no entitlement to a severance payment, just the notice period in your contract or award and any outstanding annual leave and long service leave. (At 4 years service, you won't have any long service leave yet, but if any of the other guys have been there more than 5 years, they might be entitled to something depending on what state the business is in - might be worth telling them).

Make sure all your superannuation payments from the business are up to date and check your contract for any other benefits that could be outstanding (bonuses, allowances etc.)

Have a look at this info from the Fair Work Ombudsman - it will give you more detail.
http://www.fairwork.gov.au/factsheets/FWO-Fact-sheet-Notice-of-termination-and-redundancy-pay.pdf

Are you ok in terms of finding your next job? I believe that moving on is the quickest way to get over a redundancy (both financially and psychologically!).

Hope you're ok and that your next step works out for you.

 

[Kristine..]

Hello Josh

Very sorry to hear this

I hope that you and your co-workers take your Boss out to dinner to thank him for the four years of employment he has provided to you, and for continuing to employ you for as long as he could.

If he had shed staff earlier, or managed to win a few more jobs (quality of work?), he would probably still be in business today.

So while it is an inconvenience to you, it is probably the loss of a dream, and his capital, and his family income, to him.

While you no doubt want to, and will, get every cent 'owing' to you, make sure you don't turn this episode into a bitter pill for him by all of you baying for your 'rights' and 'entitlements'.

A little bit of grace under fire goes a long way in how we remember people. He has shown his mettle. Now it's your turn to show yours.

Cheers
Kristine

 

[weg]

Sorry to hear this Josh.

I think a lot more businesses than some of us realize are doing it real tough right now.

Hopefully this is as bad as it gets, but i fear the longer it goes the worse things will be (because it doesn't take long for things to go pear shaped).

My advise would be to go all out in securing a new job, outside of you area if you have to if things there are quiet.

Goodluck to you (and your boss).

 

[josko]

I would have thought Labor would have fixed that up?

Of all the things to have not changed why leave that? I guess small business is not where their union membership is generally employed and if they are they are covered by industry redundancy schemes anyway...

As far as I am concerned any employer has a staff member on for x years they should have to pay x times 2 weeks up to a cap of 20weeks like most awards.

If the employee has committed for x number of years surely that is a small price to pay. That said their should be no unfair dismissal laws (apart from obvious equity / fairness issues) and this process should be easy for business as long as they pay that price.

Sorry to hear that JD86, as Aaron said check out WA there are still opportunities for construction professionals over here;

http://mycareer.com.au/jobs/perth/construction-architecture/drafting/?s=151

Hi Tom,

You have hit a very sore point with me there.

As a small employer, the termination payments we had to pay letting three staff go last GFC meant that I and my husband went without wages for almost three months.

I also stopped paying my husbands Superannuation for the years 2008-2009 and half of 2010 and am still madly trying to catch up.

At the end of the day, the taxes we pay are ridiculous, as is the Superannuation, and I am constantly watching the bottom dollar.


Regards JO

 

[Bigtone]

I would have thought Labor would have fixed that up?

Of all the things to have not changed why leave that? I guess small business is not where their union membership is generally employed and if they are they are covered by industry redundancy schemes anyway...

As far as I am concerned any employer has a staff member on for x years they should have to pay x times 2 weeks up to a cap of 20weeks like most awards.

If the employee has committed for x number of years surely that is a small price to pay. That said their should be no unfair dismissal laws (apart from obvious equity / fairness issues) and this process should be easy for business as long as they pay that price.

Sorry to hear that JD86, as Aaron said check out WA there are still opportunities for construction professionals over here;

http://mycareer.com.au/jobs/perth/construction-architecture/drafting/?s=151

ur kidding right?

if he had enough to pay out that much in redundancy payments then he would have kept the business going longer and try and save it. he has taken all the risk, provided employment to many people, created lots of income tax for govt.

No-one is going to pay him annual leave or give him a cent.

I am getting a bit worried as i have agreed with three of Kristine's recent posts but again I believe she is spot on in this case.

It is very different in a small business if you let someone go after 4+ years but when he closes the door as he is going bust, you surely can't want to bleed him for redundancy payments as well.

 

[tom32]

I am all for a free labour market.

I was all for workchoices except for the redundancy provisions and the special provisions for businesses with under 100 employees.

I should be free to negotiate whatever terms I want to with an employer. If that is 2 weeks per year redundancy that used to just go with the turf of being full time and then to see that law changed basically means I now have to specifically negotiate this term.

I can but for many who think being full time gives them some element of protection and to get absolutely nothing upon a termination stinks.

I am not asking for much basically what is in the awards; 2 weeks for each full year of service capped at 16 weeks if under 40 and 20 weeks if over 40.

If a business keeps an employee for say 10 years you can be pretty certian it is a reasonably good employee.

What is worse if the business goes broke the individual can use the governments geers scheme to get his redundancy entitlement. Due to the 15 employees rule you cannot in this case.

I like universal and simple laws. I am all for people being able to negotiate their own terms. I am not for special rules for certain businesses around employment conditions.

 

[vla]

Hi guys,

this morning my boss advised me, and all 4 other staff, that he cannot continue to keep the business running - we are all being made redundant.

He has given us 4 weeks notice. He said he will pay us our owing annual leave in full.

I have been a full time employee for him for 4 years.

Am I entitled to some sort of redundancee package or is the 4 weeks notice sufficient?

This is the first time I have been in such a situation, I am not sure how to find out.

Can anyone help?

I am a draftsman if that helps

Thanks

Contact Fair work australia or contact legal aid for a referral

 

[lizzie]

I think a lot more businesses than some of us realize are doing it real tough right now.

Definately ... Bluescope announced today they are shedding 1,000 jobs.

Hubby works for a different steel company and is having a "talk" today about how the business is travelling. The high dollar combined with the high cost of ore is killing large local manufacturing.

Why on earth would the OP want to contact legal aid? The laws are clear. An employer of under 15 people doesn't have to pay redundancy. I think the boss is being good in giving them 4 weeks notice and holidays - many just say "pack up your desk" and then it's all over with no warning, and then declare bankrupt so you also get none of your entitlements either.

Kristine is right. Leave with good grace. It's not your bosses fault that there is no work. What goes around comes around so try to be pleasant and friendly.

 

[jaycee]

Definately ... Bluescope announced today they are shedding 1,000 jobs.

Hubby works for a different steel company and is having a "talk" today about how the business is travelling. The high dollar combined with the high cost of ore is killing large local manufacturing.

Why on earth would the OP want to contact legal aid? The laws are clear. An employer of under 15 people doesn't have to pay redundancy. I think the boss is being good in giving them 4 weeks notice and holidays - many just say "pack up your desk" and then it's all over with no warning, and then declare bankrupt so you also get none of your entitlements either.

Kristine is right. Leave with good grace. It's not your bosses fault that there is no work. What goes around comes around so try to be pleasant and friendly.

Because he is usure and looking for an answer, and with the little knowledged he has, that's the answer he came up with.. but before steamrolling in at full speed, possibly due to his uncertainty, the OP questioned it outloud to others who might be able to explain it to him a bit better, is my guess..

 

[josko]

ur kidding right?

if he had enough to pay out that much in redundancy payments then he would have kept the business going longer and try and save it. he has taken all the risk, provided employment to many people, created lots of income tax for govt.
No-one is going to pay him annual leave or give him a cent.

I am getting a bit worried as i have agreed with three of Kristine's recent posts but again I believe she is spot on in this case.

It is very different in a small business if you let someone go after 4+ years but when he closes the door as he is going bust, you surely can't want to bleed him for redundancy payments as well.

Well said. Full stop.

Regards JO

 

[marg4000]

We have a friend with a small business who is facing the reality that the business is no longer making any profit and will have to be closed down. Difficult for his employees, but absolutely devastating for them.

This is the end of another small family business, sadly not the only one.
Marg

 

[Dan_p]

Contact Fair work australia or contact legal aid for a referral

Wouldn't he be better off trying to secure a new job rather then spending energy on getting every last cent out of his previous employer.

The employer paid him for when he was working for him and has not done anything illegal with offering him a 4 week redundancy. The system is against small businesses.

How are your cad skills, we are always looking for these types if you are interested in working for a survey company based in Perth. Drop me a PM if you are interested.

 

[cloudyday]

this morning my boss advised me, and all 4 other staff, that he cannot continue to keep the business running - we are all being made redundant. He said he will pay us our owing annual leave in full.

Am I entitled to some sort of redundancee package or is the 4 weeks notice sufficient?

Your boss was likely losing money for years and only managed to decide to shut down the business because it was losing "too" much money. Interesting how employees want to ensure they suck every last penny out of the business before leaving their job, despite knowing the owners are going bust.

Its wishful thinking that some members here think small businesses like this should have labor laws changed which forces small businesses to pay redundancy packages. Most small businesses are hardly profitable.