Is it all for real?

[Matt007]

Hi all,
I'm at my wits end. I have been involved with all this wealth creation seminar stuff for 5 years, done the 21CA, Massland, Nik Hallik, Planet Wealth, Steve McKnight etc etc etc. Am I any further ahead? No. I recently learnt some things from no less than 4 former staff members of a particular 'property development' company who teaches people that the vast majority of what the company were saying/claiming was false. Nothing they claimed could (or it appears can) be proven, not the supposedly successful students, the financial worth of the company, the projects, none of it. I even found others in the development industry who flat out will not deal with this person or his company, or his students for that matter. All in all i feel absolutely conned. And when I mentioned this on another board I was threatened with all manner of self important, self righteous vitriol from those trying to protect their own asses. It made me sick to my stomach to see how it went.

I have since tried to make a go of things myself but i have to say after all the hard work over the last 18 months, and since finding those things out, my trust and belief in all this 'wealth creation' has hit rock bottom. Are the methodologies valid? Of course. They've existed for decades and are used by insitutions every day. Are they as easy, profitable or anywhere near what they are purported to be? Not even close. Can the one man band use them to the extent it has been claimed? I'm beginning to seriously doubt this as well.

I am so tired. I've put in years of effort, lost so much damn money and worse, time, to all these fakers spruikers and outright liars that I am sick to my stomach. I work full time, long hours, am a single Dad who wants nothing more than to spend time with his daughter, and I have tried time and time adn time again to make these things work. I am so damn tired of these people trying to 'upsell' me or get me to sign up to another seminar or mentoring program or some other f***ing plan to part me from my money.. I JUST WANT TO FIND SOMEONE HONEST!!!! Is this too much to ask? Within the wealth creation seminar circuit I'd say it appears as though the answer is yes. As soon as you start asking probing questions about proof and validity all of a sudden 'oh you have the wrong mindset' or ' we dont' want negative people here' or they all scurry for cover and refuse to answer any more questions..

and before anyone says you have to put in time effort etc to make something work, where property options are concerned i've been at this 18 months, nightly, non stop. I'd say that's a fair trial.

where to from here? Can ANYONE make any suggestions or offer any guidance or help. I just want this to work. It has to work. I can't believe i've been conned by everyone for the last 5 years.

 

[boomtown]

What sort of IP(s) are you holding and where? How bad are your holding costs?

 

[exstatic]

Matt, I think possibly where your problem may lie is that you are trying to find the 'right', answer from the 'right' person. Guess who the right person is? It's you.

The only thing that all those seminars, books and spruikers do for you is make you realise the only person you can trust is yourself, trust your own instinct and intuition.

I to have been on the wealth creation path for the past 2-3 years, been to many seminars, courses, read books, listened to audio guides etc.. but none of that actually made me wealthy, all it has done for me is open up my mindset, make me realise that taking action on your own instinct is the only way to create wealth.

If there was a magic formula to getting rich, then wouldn't everyone be rich..?

Some advice for you in typical wealth creation jargon is;
- Diversify, don't put all your eggs in one basket
- Determine what your level of risk is, with greater risk, usually comes greater reward, manage that risk accordingly
- Take action, don't let fear of failure hold you back
- Money is everywhere, it's abundant.
- Money makes things happen

There is a fantastic article that I think you should read here on SS, it pretty much sums up everything that has been said at all those wealth creation seminars I have been to, and without this sort of thinking and foundation it will be very hard for you to realise your goals.

Check it out here - http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24892

 

[Aaron Sice]

i feel for you matt, i really do.

i'm in the same boat - 5 "wealth creation" ideas - all highly recommended, highly advertised, highly profitable - all bunkum. i've spent about $20k so far and i've lost another $5k playing.

i take it you've spoken to Damien as well? not good is it? I was disgusted and gutted when i heard what he had to say - needless to say i don't deal with that company anymore. Worse still, this company and another reputable company are in cohorts which completely shook me. i've been at it 3 years now and while i'm reasonably successful at what i do, i feel if the teaching were correct i could have been a gazillionaire by now.

Mate if you want some good advice PM me and i'll give you the details of a young bloke I know who has given me a bit of guidance. He himself is super successful and has made his fortune with common sense and money down - no get rich quick schemes with "no deposit" and the good old days of hybrid trusts - just simple company/trust structures and SMSFs.

the only half credible "trading system" out there is Traders International IMPO - or futures trading - and even then you should take your success on a monthly basis - as well as hook inot the trading rooms every night and follow someone else's lead. you learn a lot, enough to to go your own way, but i'm so jaded i CBFd anymore.

at the end of the day, unless you can quit work, hobbies, responsibilities and life altogehter to focus on these "Schemes" then you can;t win. you need to watch the markets, be absorbed in it and breathing it every day to understand it.

i'm immersed in it every day (RE and ASX) and i still mess it up.

I have since taken Rixter's CGA approach of slowly slowly for financial independance. one house every year for 10 years. LOE on house 1 in year 11 and so on and so forth. i'll be 40 with house 10 and my eldest will have just started high school so lets hope and pray huh...?

but if you'd like to share experiences, then i'm always happy to chat. maybe we can find a common solution to our problem. i dunno - when you're ready.....

 

[ArJay]

It's the old addage...if it works then why are they selling it?
That's one of Buffett's golden rules....tell no-one (keep your mouth shut).

SS and the occasional book are the only resources I reckon you'll ever need.
Looking for honest investing advice, look no further...

R

 

[marg4000]

There are so many different opinions out there that it is up to each one of us to sort out where we want to go as far as investing is concerned.

Even on Somersoft there is a wealth of opposing opinions - house or unit? city or regional? cash flow or capital growth? one expensive property or 5 cheapies? etc.

We started investing in IPs in the 1980s and basically had to make it up as we went along. We would have done far better had the conditions today been available then, but even our limited efforts will mean an extra $750K approx of assets (after small remaining mortgages) going into retirement, enough to make a big difference.

At the end of the day, work out what YOU want. Is it an IP? (not sure from your post if you are already investing).

If so, go to a mortgage broker or bank and find out how much you can afford to borrow (which really means, how much you can afford to pay back).
Choose the area (or areas) you want to investigate.
Check all properties available on www.realestate.com and look through as many as you can.

After a couple of months you should be able to recognise what is good value, and then you are in a position to buy.

Then just do it - the first is the hardest.

Good luck!
Marg

 

[Sunder]

Two words: Que Bono - Who benefits?

Like all these other people have said, who benefits from you going to these wealth creation seminars? Why would someone who has a system of making money want you to benefit?

If you do benefit, it's probably out of pure luck, or necessity. Like the property spruikiers who sell you 15-20% over priced property, when the market grows 50%. You didn't get a good deal, someone took half your profit.

My advice for someone who wants to spend time with their daughter and not endless weekends and nights studying and checking things out? Hold cash. The short term yield on cash, is higher than the long term yield on property. (This of course hasn't been the case until recently, and won't be the case for more than another year or so - but why not take advantage of it now?)

At least you know who benefits then, and how much they're taking. You get your 8%, the bank keeps their 0.7-1.6% margin.

 

[chilliaa]

Hi all,
I'm at my wits end. I have been involved with all this wealth creation seminar stuff for 5 years, done the 21CA, Massland, Nik Hallik, Planet Wealth, Steve McKnight etc etc etc. Am I any further ahead? No. I recently learnt some things from no less than 4 former staff members of a particular 'property development' company who teaches people that the vast majority of what the company were saying/claiming was false. Nothing they claimed could (or it appears can) be proven, not the supposedly successful students, the financial worth of the company, the projects, none of it. I even found others in the development industry who flat out will not deal with this person or his company, or his students for that matter. All in all i feel absolutely conned. And when I mentioned this on another board I was threatened with all manner of self important, self righteous vitriol from those trying to protect their own asses. It made me sick to my stomach to see how it went.

I have since tried to make a go of things myself but i have to say after all the hard work over the last 18 months, and since finding those things out, my trust and belief in all this 'wealth creation' has hit rock bottom. Are the methodologies valid? Of course. They've existed for decades and are used by insitutions every day. Are they as easy, profitable or anywhere near what they are purported to be? Not even close. Can the one man band use them to the extent it has been claimed? I'm beginning to seriously doubt this as well.

I am so tired. I've put in years of effort, lost so much damn money and worse, time, to all these fakers spruikers and outright liars that I am sick to my stomach. I work full time, long hours, am a single Dad who wants nothing more than to spend time with his daughter, and I have tried time and time adn time again to make these things work. I am so damn tired of these people trying to 'upsell' me or get me to sign up to another seminar or mentoring program or some other f***ing plan to part me from my money.. I JUST WANT TO FIND SOMEONE HONEST!!!! Is this too much to ask? Within the wealth creation seminar circuit I'd say it appears as though the answer is yes. As soon as you start asking probing questions about proof and validity all of a sudden 'oh you have the wrong mindset' or ' we dont' want negative people here' or they all scurry for cover and refuse to answer any more questions..

and before anyone says you have to put in time effort etc to make something work, where property options are concerned i've been at this 18 months, nightly, non stop. I'd say that's a fair trial.

where to from here? Can ANYONE make any suggestions or offer any guidance or help. I just want this to work. It has to work. I can't believe i've been conned by everyone for the last 5 years.

No offence buddy, but they probably saw you a mile away. Its just like those late nite TV adds that say there is no point doing hard work at a gym just buy their latest excercise machine.

What can you do about them?
Nothing!!!!! Get over it

If you really want to improve your financial future, build your future like building a castle, SLOW and with STRONG foundations.

My recommendation:
1) Try to save (this is a no brainer)
2) When you have saved 25% deposit then look at a standard investment property that is of average price in the area you are looking at buying.
3) Make sure you fix at least part of the loan for a long duration (this acts as insurance and if you cant satisfactory meet those fixed repayments you shouldnt be buying).
4) Make additional repayments against the loan, ie pay off as much as possible.
5) Wait 5years and start again.
This might be very simplistic, but my gut feeling is you are looking for a way to take short cuts.

 

[units4me]

I really feel for you mate. I've never been near a seminar and haven' t read many investing books other than a few talking about peoples previous experiences in property.

I've done very well off property and i did it mainly by applying a bit of commonsense, acting on something if you think it's worthwhile, talking to to people who've done it before and ignoring those who haven't.

Some tips....

Forums provide invaluable info and differing views for free. Use them.
Don't be afraid to invest in different areas/regional.
Look for IPs that provide yield AND capital gain.
Understand that property moves in waves/cycles and you need to buy at a good time- not now.
Talk to as many experienced investors as you can.
Don't go to seminars.
Don't buy off "marketing" companies, buy from REAs or private.
Resist temptation to sell.

 

[WillG]

where to from here? Can ANYONE make any suggestions or offer any guidance or help. I just want this to work. It has to work. I can't believe i've been conned by everyone for the last 5 years.

Forget about the past and start forming your own opinions. Do your own research on areas you think are good and crunch the numbers.

If you need help on crunching the numbers, post the deals on the forum and the members will analyse them.

You alone will make the decision to buy a property and must understand why a property is good.

Hope this helps

 

[BayView]

18 months is not long enough to get an indication of your journey ahead. The lights won't all be green down the street ahead.

Our first 2 IP's were both neg cashflow, but with decent depreciation to soften the blow. It was still a bit hard.

After 18 months we had had no rent increases, one of the tenants was a nightmare and we cut her loose from her lease, and the properties had not gone up a whole lot in value.

We were thinking this is all a bit too hard, but stuck at it, bought 2 more that were pos geared, and sold one of the first IP's after 2 and a bit years and then bought another.

And so on.

Thankfully, we didn't give up and now, 8 years later, the gravy train is starting to roll.

Still got a few more stops before reaching the final station, but well on the way.

My advice; you now know more than enough to do it. Stick around here for a while and get the REAL help, and make the next IP a winner at every post;

cashflow,
depreciation,
cap gain prospects,
add-value prospects,
proximity to amenities.

Re-invest the profits, reduce the debts and wait a bit.

 

[HandyAndy888]

Hi all,
I'm at my wits end. I have been involved with all this wealth creation seminar stuff for 5 years, done the 21CA, Massland, Nik Hallik, Planet Wealth, Steve McKnight etc etc etc. Am I any further ahead? No. I recently learnt some things from no less than 4 former staff members of a particular 'property development' company who teaches people that the vast majority of what the company were saying/claiming was false. Nothing they claimed could (or it appears can) be proven, not the supposedly successful students, the financial worth of the company, the projects, none of it. I even found others in the development industry who flat out will not deal with this person or his company, or his students for that matter. All in all i feel absolutely conned. And when I mentioned this on another board I was threatened with all manner of self important, self righteous vitriol from those trying to protect their own asses. It made me sick to my stomach to see how it went.

I have since tried to make a go of things myself but i have to say after all the hard work over the last 18 months, and since finding those things out, my trust and belief in all this 'wealth creation' has hit rock bottom. Are the methodologies valid? Of course. They've existed for decades and are used by insitutions every day. Are they as easy, profitable or anywhere near what they are purported to be? Not even close. Can the one man band use them to the extent it has been claimed? I'm beginning to seriously doubt this as well.

I am so tired. I've put in years of effort, lost so much damn money and worse, time, to all these fakers spruikers and outright liars that I am sick to my stomach. I work full time, long hours, am a single Dad who wants nothing more than to spend time with his daughter, and I have tried time and time adn time again to make these things work. I am so damn tired of these people trying to 'upsell' me or get me to sign up to another seminar or mentoring program or some other f***ing plan to part me from my money.. I JUST WANT TO FIND SOMEONE HONEST!!!! Is this too much to ask? Within the wealth creation seminar circuit I'd say it appears as though the answer is yes. As soon as you start asking probing questions about proof and validity all of a sudden 'oh you have the wrong mindset' or ' we dont' want negative people here' or they all scurry for cover and refuse to answer any more questions..

and before anyone says you have to put in time effort etc to make something work, where property options are concerned i've been at this 18 months, nightly, non stop. I'd say that's a fair trial.

where to from here? Can ANYONE make any suggestions or offer any guidance or help. I just want this to work. It has to work. I can't believe i've been conned by everyone for the last 5 years.

Step 1: Stop going to seminars.
Step 2: Start reading free forums.
Step 3: Act.

 

[The Y-man]

Step 1: Stop going to seminars.
Step 2: Start reading free forums.
Step 3: Act.

Excellent advice.

Definition of insanity: doing the same things and expecting different results.

Seminars work for some people. It just doesn't for others. You've tried more than enough. Try something else (less costly too!).

Cheers,

The Y-man

 

[MarkandTina]

am a single Dad who wants nothing more than to spend time with his daughter

when your lying on your deathbed sometime in the future, would you prefer to have another $5000 or another day with your daughter

take it slow and enjoy the ride, try to be happy with what you've got rather than focussed on what others have

reread the excellent advice above and slowly do enough to secure yours and your daughters futures

be your own expert, only you really know what you want from life

 

[GoAnna!]

Have you bought a property?

 

[peastman]

I subscribe to the KISS principle "Keep it simple stupid"

Buy a IP you can afford.
Wait.
Buy another place you can afford
Wait
etc.

If you keep things as simple and basic as that, it all happens.

Good Luck

 

[jingo]

Hi Matt007,

Lots of good advice above. (I liked Suner's idea of holding cash for a while). Take deep breaths and perhaps take a couple of days away from your computer to spend with your daughter.

Building wealth is a slow and steady process. (Unless you win tatts!) It may be helpful to work out what you are trying to achieve first and then work out ways of achieving your goal.

I haven't been to any seminars and cannot comment on the ones you have mentioned in your initial post suffice to say that the methods these people have employed to become wealthy may work for them. They have the knowledge and skills to implement the strategies they are marketing. Their strategies may also have worked in better economic conditions, and now may not be the time to be attempting their strategies??

Regarding the positive state of mind. Generally a positive state of mind helps you to keep on keeping on even when things are not going so well. Hardships and challenges will arise constantly when you are trying to build wealth. A positive state of mind together with a plan of what you are wanting to achieve will help you stay the course.

Jan Somer's books are well worth a read. She outlines a simple, effective and managable plan that works over time. (Her ideas are not a get rich quick scheme).


All the best,

Regards Jason.

 

[Thann]

I subscribe to the KISS principle "Keep it simple stupid"

Buy a IP you can afford.
Wait.
Buy another place you can afford
Wait
etc.

This sounds like what we're doing!

PPOR purchased, now saving by dumping everything we can into an offset account against it.

Long way to go though...

 

[peastman]

So, are all these seminars, workshops, mentoring programs, etc. of any real value or do they just confuse people who in the end just loose heart and do nothing?

 

[Raddles]

HI there
please don't discount seminars - just remember everyone learns in different ways and for some - the seminar - and the opportunity to network with like minded people can be the necessary spark to get them going on their investment journey.
We have been to seminars and got things on dvds as well as read books and actually invested.
In our case it helped refine what we were doing and helped us refocus on what we wanted to achieve. It doesn't have to cost a fortune either. My husband recently went to a seminar which was for free - it was property related but it did remind us of some of the other things we need to do - like update wills and powers of attorney as our situation changes (we have a child who has just turned 18 - which will affect how we do things).
Investing in your own education - however it is delivered - is one of the most profitable investments you can make.
thanks