Been searching for a while now for an investment property, preferably to renovate and resell. But I'm struggling to find any that are money makers, they are all so overpriced and the difference between the unrenovated ones and the renovated ones is only small. Not worth it, or no profit. Any one else finding this? Any suggestions?
Is anyone else finding it hard to find potential investments at a decent price in NSW
- Thread starter Hala
- Start date
Even Brisbane, especially the inner Brisbane is hot at the moment. Anything around $550k is getting snapped up at first open.
Have you got experience with renovation? Also if you're planning to flip the property do you have an idea of what the market in the area is looking for?
I don't want to p#ss on your bonfire but it's important you know what you're in for before making such a significant decision. I've seen people take HUGE losses because they went in ill prepared.
If you're not that experienced maybe look for a unit first. Cheers
I don't want to p#ss on your bonfire but it's important you know what you're in for before making such a significant decision. I've seen people take HUGE losses because they went in ill prepared.
If you're not that experienced maybe look for a unit first. Cheers
It can be very difficult to make a living with all the associated costs to acquire and sell property (agency fees, legal costs etc) and if the market suddenly goes soft you can be in serious trouble if you can't sell the property for a profit.
This is especially true if you use another property as collateral for the loan.
That being said if you're confident in you abilities then go for it.
Personally I recommend property investors to take a land banking approach and and focus of cheap cosmetic renovations which offer a good return on investment. It's not as exciting as renovating and flipping property but it's a solid strategy.
If you decide to buy in Sydney's East get in touch
. Cheers
The margins on buying a property to renovate and sell are extremely tight almost everywhere. I've spoken with a lot of people who have essentially the same issues. They barely make a profit on the renovation and it's simply not worth it when they factor in the buying, holding and selling costs.
It is possible however. People are able to do it. They buy at a very reasonable price, they've already go their plans in place before they purchase and they run the margins very tightly.
It is possible however. People are able to do it. They buy at a very reasonable price, they've already go their plans in place before they purchase and they run the margins very tightly.
Thank you for your response. I realise that the margins are really tight. But I've been reviewing cherie barbers work and am wondering how she was able to turn in her full time job, to buy renovate and make a profit. She has done over 45 properties and has been able to generate huge amounts of profit. I am really interested in pursuing this, but like you once factoring in all the profits realise in most cases it's not worth it! Just wondering how others are doing it! Especially in this tough market, where there is barely not much difference between unrenovated and renovated
Sydney Yes, NSW No
Thank you for your response. I realise that the margins are really tight. But I've been reviewing cherie barbers work and am wondering how she was able to turn in her full time job, to buy renovate and make a profit. She has done over 45 properties and has been able to generate huge amounts of profit. I am really interested in pursuing this, but like you once factoring in all the profits realise in most cases it's not worth it! Just wondering how others are doing it! Especially in this tough market, where there is barely not much difference between unrenovated and renovated
Not everyone could become another Cherie. And now with those tv shows as well, too many people want to copy as well. have you thought that if Cherie is so successful in flipping (reckon she keeps done as well) why she bothers to run a Reno course?
I did think about that too but figured she charges $5000 for 3 day workshop. If she can make $50k in 3 days would be a lot quicker than waiting around for a potential Reno.
It can be very difficult to make a living with all the associated costs to acquire and sell property (agency fees, legal costs etc) and if the market suddenly goes soft you can be in serious trouble if you can't sell the property for a profit.
This is especially true if you use another property as collateral for the loan.
That being said if you're confident in you abilities then go for it.
Personally I recommend property investors to take a land banking approach and and focus of cheap cosmetic renovations which offer a good return on investment. It's not as exciting as renovating and flipping property but it's a solid strategy.
If you decide to buy in Sydney's East get in touch
Thanks lee will definitely keep it in mind
I've done many reno's over the years (first in 1985) and made okay money, but I've made much more on small developments (dual occ and subdivisions)..... With renovations you need to be buying in a growth market which generally restricts you to a couple of years in most cycles. Most profit made on smaller reno's is just the labour saving by doing the work yourself ... in other words you are buying a wage. If you don't have the skills to do the work and you have to employ tradespeople then it's extremely difficult to make it work.
Don't forget that by the time you pay capital gains tax, agents selling costs, legal costs, purchase costs and that biggie .. stamp duty ... you don't get a lot back in the pocket.
My tip is : Find a property in a location that is in good demand and split. This is where you will get much better returns and you will have a market for the end product and you can do this whilst holding down a paid job.
Cherie Barber .... She will tell you nothing that you can't learn by "doing". When you see the Cherie Barber types on TV .... they get a before and after valuation done, but this doesn't guarantee the figure as a sale ... it's just a guestimate. Plus they never take all the hidden cost from the final valuation ...... if they did they'd generally take a loss. You will notice it's mainly done on owner occupier properties.
This post is not intended to rain on your parade .... just a reality check. Do much DD before embarking on this profession ..... it can work, but it is hard and can be very difficult ..... plus the banks aren't going to throw money at you.
Anyway .... best of luck
Mystery
Thank you for your response. I realise that the margins are really tight. But I've been reviewing cherie barbers work and am wondering how she was able to turn in her full time job, to buy renovate and make a profit. She has done over 45 properties and has been able to generate huge amounts of profit. I am really interested in pursuing this, but like you once factoring in all the profits realise in most cases it's not worth it! Just wondering how others are doing it! Especially in this tough market, where there is barely not much difference between unrenovated and renovated
Will the banks lend to you if you give up your day job? Or have you a tonne of equity behind you so you don't need them? Not being able to get a loan could squash your plans flat.
Last edited:
This isn't specifically about Cherie , but about all of these types of course promoters .
Two things too be aware of
Survivorship bias . There's a lot of people will start of on a specific venture but not all succeed . Those that succeed are the ones who go off an write / promote courses . Some of that success may just be due to luck rather than skill . They happened to pick the right shares , or employ tradesmen who didn't stuff them around , or their might have been on the right side of a rezoning they were'nt aware of . Often they aren't specifically aware of that element of luck .
We've been successful , BUT , there have been a couple of conversations with other people which , if we hadn't had , would have changed what happened . Other things might have happened , but what did happen wouldn't have happened.
Survivorship bias is a concept well understood within the feild of share trading , but it equaly applies to property course promoters .....
Timing . Skater would have the knowledge to run a course on buying cheapies and renovating in Mt Druitt, but if you tried to do what she and her husband have done , you wouldn't be able to do it at the moment because the market has changed . If she started doing that course in 7-8 years time you might be able to replicate things , but the market has changed from when they were doing it.
Henry Kaye made lots of money using a specific technique at the beginning of the previous cycle , but when he launched courses promoting this many people ( including my ex brother in Law ) lost almost every thing and sadly some have never recovered.......
The time to do what Cherie or Nathan or Henry did was when they did it , not years later. The cynic in me says they are running course probably because they can make more money doing that than doing what they were originally doing.
Cliff
Two things too be aware of
Survivorship bias . There's a lot of people will start of on a specific venture but not all succeed . Those that succeed are the ones who go off an write / promote courses . Some of that success may just be due to luck rather than skill . They happened to pick the right shares , or employ tradesmen who didn't stuff them around , or their might have been on the right side of a rezoning they were'nt aware of . Often they aren't specifically aware of that element of luck .
We've been successful , BUT , there have been a couple of conversations with other people which , if we hadn't had , would have changed what happened . Other things might have happened , but what did happen wouldn't have happened.
Survivorship bias is a concept well understood within the feild of share trading , but it equaly applies to property course promoters .....
Timing . Skater would have the knowledge to run a course on buying cheapies and renovating in Mt Druitt, but if you tried to do what she and her husband have done , you wouldn't be able to do it at the moment because the market has changed . If she started doing that course in 7-8 years time you might be able to replicate things , but the market has changed from when they were doing it.
Henry Kaye made lots of money using a specific technique at the beginning of the previous cycle , but when he launched courses promoting this many people ( including my ex brother in Law ) lost almost every thing and sadly some have never recovered.......
The time to do what Cherie or Nathan or Henry did was when they did it , not years later. The cynic in me says they are running course probably because they can make more money doing that than doing what they were originally doing.
Cliff
Thanks so much for your honesty guys, I've always pondered on paying any buyers agents and promoters as I've always questioned wether there still is money in what they are preaching. I messaged cherie barber a week ago regarding enroling in her course and the hesitations I have with today's market. Her feedback was that she currently has over 500 renos that are active in today's market, she also advises her students to move further out of sydney CBD 25-75km. I'm still a little confused as to wether to invest in her course or not. The main reason behind me leaning towards doing the course is because about a year ago my husband and I bought a run down property in Sydney's western suburbs we did a cosmetic Reno, which included, painting, flooring, kitchen and bathroom tidy up. When we revalued the property, minus all holding costs there was only about a 10k increase.....so disappointing not really sure where I went wrong there. Thought maybe I need to educated in the matter further and she seemed quite promising!
That's pretty much to be expected in this market.
For instance, we've got one that will be going to sale. It's one that we never got around to reno'ing. We are contemplating leaving it as is & just doing the most basic tidy up on it, because when you add the cost of the kitchen & bathroom that it needs, removing the horrible wood panelling from the walls & the time taken to do all this, we really won't be that far ahead.
Like Seech said, the timing isn't right for this approach.
So......I'd suggest saving your money & sticking around this place & learn as much as you can. It's free, AND you often get to learn a lot more than at any of these courses. Best of all, the posters on here haven't got vested interests (like the seminar spruikers) and won't try to sell you anything.
Hehe
Seminar now on! For a mere $10k per head, learn the secrets of how to profit from Housing Commision Cheapies and to how to avoid overcapitisation.
Hurry! Seats are limited! Only 1000 seats left at this discounted price!
