General Motors - Will Holden be affected

Although Holden likes to emphasise it's "Australian ness", I think they would majorly struggle to survive without GM.

For a start they rely on GM for engine design.

Holden exports a lot of engines and finished cars but I suppose it would be hard to export if the car was not a GM design.

Where's the cred in an Aussie car if we had to start from scratch?
I suppose we could cobble something together with bits and pieces imported from korea. But why bother?:):confused:
 
Don't know how elaborate the web is.

But you'd have to assume that all car manufacturers will be hurting if the world economies are hurting and people have no money.

My MB told me that GE finance has gone under (that went under the radar on the news), so a HUGE amount of unsecured finance is now GONE.

This means there is only Banks, and they are not handing out money willy-nilly now.
 
Does anyone know if Holden would be affected? Are they wholly owned by GM, or just a local franchise/affiliate with no overseas ownership?

Same question could be asked for Woolworths

http://www.retail-week.com/online/2008/11/woolworths_enters_administration.html

Woolworths enters administration


  • Published: 26 November 2008 17:35


Woolworths has gone into administration

Updated: Woolworths' retail division and its entertainment supply business EUK are being put into administration.

Deloitte will be formally appointed later this evening, following a board meeting scheduled for 6pm.

Dave
 
GE Money and other GE related finance groups havent gone under per se.

They have exited a market that they feel is an obvious problem for them to get finance into and get out from.

My recollection is that GE "owned" more of Australia's new vehicle showroom floor stock than any one else.

Those in the car industry would know its been a major hoo haa refinancing the floor stock to new providers

ta
rolf
 
GE was underwriter for many floorplan providers, so there is a mess from that angle.

one thing no one heard however is that GE's Fleet business has gone into volentery administration... i think its custom fleet.
 
There is no way the US is going to let GM or Ford go bust. Maybe Chrysler for the sake of saving the other two.

The full extent on Chryslers situation is not known because it is effectively a private company. Watch them sell of some of their brands to the indians or chinese in the new year.
 
There is no way the US is going to let GM or Ford go bust. Maybe Chrysler for the sake of saving the other two.

The full extent on Chryslers situation is not known because it is effectively a private company. Watch them sell of some of their brands to the indians or chinese in the new year.

Mergers or Chapter 11 or both. Those three companies will not be in their present form in the future.
 
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US just agreed on a 15 billion bailout a few hours ago. just enough for them to last until late Jan. when Obama takes over.
 
US just agreed on a 15 billion bailout a few hours ago. just enough for them to last until late Jan. when Obama takes over.

ha ha - "ka boom!"

this is just market forces at work. redundant unwanted products that have been pushed past their use by date
 
how many times can they re-design an 60yo V6 engine...?

time to move with the times folks. compared an older VB/VC commodore in size to the VZ? not only are they physically bigger, but they're disproportionately heavier with bigger engines and use more fuel.

my mate stock 3.3L VB SL/E was more economical than the current range of commodores - and that was an engine akin to what you find in a tractor with a carby.

GM need to close to make way for better products.
 
There is no way the US is going to let GM or Ford go bust.

That's what I thought until the subprime crisis. I thought that they would bail themselves out somehow. We've lost big name companies in the past, no reason to believe it wont happen again. Look at the big brands in the 50s. A lot of them are no longer around.

Right now I think that GM and/or Ford may well go under. They will continue to exist, but probably under the ownership of somebody else, perhaps one of the Asian manufacturers. The brandname is very valuable.

It was interesting that Ford Australia changed their mind about importing an V6 engine from the US a couple of weeks ago. The current engine fails the upcoming environmental regulations, so they were going to import an engine from the US which already complies. Now they're going to update the engine locally.

I was wondering at the time if it was an attempt to have a more standalone business in the event of the company getting into strife.
 
how many times can they re-design an 60yo V6 engine...?

time to move with the times folks. compared an older VB/VC commodore in size to the VZ? not only are they physically bigger, but they're disproportionately heavier with bigger engines and use more fuel.

my mate stock 3.3L VB SL/E was more economical than the current range of commodores - and that was an engine akin to what you find in a tractor with a carby.

GM need to close to make way for better products.

BC - well said my man.
GM and Ford, or at least one of them, should be wiped off to make way for superior products.

I have a firm believe that without the bind support of the fleet & company car markets that the falcodorres would cease to exist as such popular models.... or would fade away into insignificance over a few years.


I think this should serve as a timely reminder to GM & Ford to "get with the times or perish".

Those companies have not been profitable for a few years now havent they?
 
It was interesting that Ford Australia changed their mind about importing an V6 engine from the US a couple of weeks ago. The current engine fails the upcoming environmental regulations, so they were going to import an engine from the US which already complies. Now they're going to update the engine locally.

I was wondering at the time if it was an attempt to have a more standalone business in the event of the company getting into strife.

I thought it might be more to do with exchange rates? When we were nearing parity with the USD, producing engines here made no sense - you could just ship them in, and save the research costs.

Now that those same engines are relatively twice as expensive .. better to produce our own.
 
Here's an interesting bit about general motors and the pension liabilities problem they, and most other US companies have, that we in Australia don't have.

From the KGB dossier and Alan Kohler,....

http://www.businessspectator.com.au:80/bs.nsf/Article/Fade-to-grey-$pd20081208-M4RA5?OpenDocument&src=kgb



The link doesn't seem to be working, Maybe you need to sign up to see it? Dunno.?


_______________________________________________________________
So here it is then,.....

Alan Kohler
Fade to grey

This bear market is a shocking disaster for the nation’s retirees – those who have retired, or are just about to.

However we are seeing in the collapse of General Motors, caused in part by its ruinously generous pension plan, that it’s an ill wind that blows nobody any good.

This is the first big downturn since market risk in Australia was shifted from institutions to individuals by the creation of industry funds and the closure by companies of their defined benefit pension plans during and after the last recession.

The Australian economy then expanded for 18 years and, apart from a gentle bear market between five and six years ago, the sharemarket has done the same. What’s more, interest rates in this country have been high and rising, unlike in the United States.

So the replacement of defined benefit super with accumulation funds, in which the workers reap the benefit of rising markets, combined with the Australian invention of mandatory super contributions, seemed a wonderful idea – until the nightmare of 2008.

Australia became a nation of investors during a succession of asset bubbles, when everything an investor touched turned to gold. We even got the added benefit of high interest rates, because it was the super-low rates in the US, not here, that caused the asset bubbles from which we benefited.

Now the bubbles have burst and interest rates are collapsing. The sharemarket is back to where it was in early 2004, which is also where it was in 2001. All the wonderful capital gains have been lost and six years of interest rates increases have been reversed in three months.

And to make matters worse, many savers and retirees borrowed to top up their super, especially just before the change in the super rules from July 1st last year.

For them, the global financial crisis is a complete disaster. Many people have been ruined and will have to go on the old age pension. Those who didn’t borrow and simply relied on industry super or, worse, a retail fund, will have to tighten their belt and contribute to the decline in spending.

Meanwhile, in Detroit, we are seeing what would be happening now if Australia’s super revolution had not occurred.

General Motors is not just a carmaker; it is a vast pension pool, relieving the US government of the burden of looking after 453,000 retirees. Many other American companies do the same. For example, one of the things inside Rio Tinto that scared off BHP Billiton was the ballooning pension liabilities of Alcan’s US packaging division.

GM was the leader in the provision of generous defined benefit pension plans.

The deal was negotiated in 1950 between the then CEO of GM, Charlie Wilson, and the Walter Reuther, the president of the United Auto Workers union.

But that pension plan, combined with the reduction in the company’s workforce, contained the seeds of the company’s destruction. In 1962 GM had 464,000 employees and was paying benefits to 40,000 retirees, a dependency ratio of one retiree to 11.6 employees.

Last year it had 141,000 workers and 453,000 retirees, which is 3.2 retirees for every worker.

Without that, GM might be able to survive a period of no one buying cars due to the unavailability of finance. But the combination of that and the pension burden means the company is doomed, along with millions of jobs throughout the car parts industry.

In general the widespread use of defined benefit pension plans throughout corporate America will lead to many more company failures in the US than Australia.

In Australia, companies shifted market risk to their hapless retiring employees during the 1990s by replacing all their defined benefit super schemes with defined contribution (or accumulation) plans, so they now have one less thing to worry about.

So as you open another can of baked beans in an attempt to make ends meet on your now much-reduced private allocated pension, there may be the faintest glimmer of consolation in the fact that you are, at the same time, helping to keep Australia’s unemployment down.
 
i'd touched on that in a different thread - but great line tc.

from what i recall hearing a couple of years back, i gather their milestone of a pension/health fund costs the company around $150mil a year.

that's a heck of a lot to fork out with nothing back.
 
I think this should serve as a timely reminder to GM & Ford to "get with the times or perish".

Those companies have not been profitable for a few years now havent they?

For the last 10 years all GM's passenger car plants in the US except for the SUV's have been making a loss. The SUV's were making a profit of $10k-$15k per car and were experiencing massive sales but now with the increasing petrol prices the market has died which is why GM are having so many problems now.

It really goes to show how incompetent management at GM are. It was obvious to everyone that petrol prices were going to increase but they decided to stick their heads in the sand.

Another problem they have is that wages are based on the length of employment. I remember reading an article about an 80 year old cleaner who was earning about $70 an hour and was refusing to quit as she was on such good money. This at least has been rectified as they now have a 2 tier wage system where new employees no longer get paid on the length of service.

As far as Holdens future goes the rumours are that GM may look to sell them to an Indian or Chinese company

Cheers Pablo.
 
This at least has been rectified as they now have a 2 tier wage system where new employees no longer get paid on the length of service.

great - but it'll still take up to another 50 years to wash the old system out of the company.

besides - has anyone seen the cars they produce. talk about "dog ugly".
 
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