Financial Planning Property Academy
- Thread starter redwing
- Start date
went to FPPA and the website says
Are they still a going concern
Looks like they have popped up here...
http://www.cparealty.com.au/
and pops up again here... http://stevenavra.com.au/
and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUTbzsDC8tE
and yet again here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtDQY3NkzOU
and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUTbzsDC8tE
and yet again here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtDQY3NkzOU
and would you believe it... here too... http://www.stevenavragold.com.au/
and pops up again here... http://stevenavra.com.au/
and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUTbzsDC8tE
and yet again here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtDQY3NkzOU
and would you believe it... here too... http://www.stevenavragold.com.au/
And? What's your point?
I have no connection with the above - however if you are disgruntled, you may ask if they are licensed to perform the service below
www.cparealty.com.au/smsf
www.cparealty.com.au/smsf
I would say that the name is a bit misleading giving financial planners cant give property advice. Why not call it the property planning academy or something. Financial Planning as a ton of regulations so would suggest to stay away from giving the perception that it has anything to do with financial planning. Those who in FP who want to give property advice get specially accredited to be a property adviser.
Since when?
FPs cannot give DIRECT property advise but they can advise client to invest in "property focused managed funds" which the word "property" refers to commercial properties instead of residential and are usually mixed with other investment funds to balance their Asset Allocation.
Since when?
http://www.financialplanningmagazine.com.au/analysis/trials-and-tribulations-of-property-advice
I know this is probably not as powerful as showing the actual Act and nor I have the intention to do the research, but basically this article says that Financial Planners can only provide property related "financial advice" if the client seek for advise either regarding their existing property or "soon to purchase" property, and wether the purchase will be inline with their risk profile which translate to their overall asset allocation. And if the client wanting to sell their investment property will the sale affect their Tax and CGT etc.
However as I mention previously, FPs can advise on property managed funds according to the client's risk profile to balance their asset allocation, but not what people think telling the client what and where to buy, this opens up too much bias......
I know this is probably not as powerful as showing the actual Act and nor I have the intention to do the research, but basically this article says that Financial Planners can only provide property related "financial advice" if the client seek for advise either regarding their existing property or "soon to purchase" property, and wether the purchase will be inline with their risk profile which translate to their overall asset allocation. And if the client wanting to sell their investment property will the sale affect their Tax and CGT etc.
However as I mention previously, FPs can advise on property managed funds according to the client's risk profile to balance their asset allocation, but not what people think telling the client what and where to buy, this opens up too much bias......
Well, I guess someone should tell all the financial advisers I know that do recommend direct property as part of their advice offering that they can't do it.
I read that dreadful article (avoid it if you haven't read it). There is nothing in the article to say that a FP cannot advise on property.
And, as a lawyer, I can say that there is no legal reason that I know of that prevents a FP (or a hairdresser) from advising on property.
I rather see the myth of financial planners not being able advice on direct property continue (though bank based planners usually can't because they aren't licensed to by their dealer group which is probably where the myth starts from)
Otherwise you will get a small minority who will use their FP licence to spruik over priced off the plan properties and ruin the reputation of the decent FPs.
There are enough crappy ones flogging SMSF with OTP properties.... i remember one adviser who i had give a crash course on super and smsf because he clearly had no idea what he was talking about.
Otherwise you will get a small minority who will use their FP licence to spruik over priced off the plan properties and ruin the reputation of the decent FPs.
There are enough crappy ones flogging SMSF with OTP properties.... i remember one adviser who i had give a crash course on super and smsf because he clearly had no idea what he was talking about.
"Barriers to property advice
While direct property investment advice is limited, De Gori argues that planners can provide a great deal of input around how it fits within a portfolio.
?As part of financial planning, you can?t dismiss the fact that direct property ownership exists with clients,? says De Gori. ?You need to include it, particularly if there are investment properties, because the asset allocation consideration of the weighting of assets will be heavily influenced.?
One of the greatest considerations is whether the client can afford to buy or invest in direct property, says De Gori. ?The financial planner can do 99 per cent of the process in terms of the recommendation towards including property as part of the portfolio and their investments strategy,? he says. ?But the next step of actually selecting a property is the tricky part.?
De Gori says planners can get accredited to provide direct property advice by getting a Real Estate Agent licence. And property advice accreditation and training are certainly not barriers for planners. De Gori says that while the FPA does not offer any specialist accredited courses on direct property, there are a number of providers in the market.
Yet De Gori notes that direct property investment advice is not a natural fit legislatively and a planner?s jurisdiction is also limited because of the state-based legislation around property. And with that comes a further licensing hurdle advisers must overcome, which involves borrowing to invest.*
?This is where you are potentially entering the world of mortgage broking, credit licensing and so forth,? says De Gori.*
The alternative is for financial planning firms joining with or developing relationships with property specialists. Australian Unity general manager, property, mortgages and banking, Mark Pratt, says there is scope for financial planning groups to partner with property organisations.*
?But obviously around that comes the appropriate regulation and disclosure,? he says. ?I?m not certain that [financial planning] organisations have really thought through that. It is a concept we have toyed with but is not one that we have moved forward with at the moment.?
Pratt says ultimately dealer groups are going to have to make the decision about whether they have the capability to give that kind of advice, and there are considerations around approved product lists.
?Product has to be rated before the dealer group will recommend it,? he says, noting that direct property investment therefore falls outside of some of that risk management process.
De Gori says that even if a planner would like to specialise in property, their own licensee would have to be comfortable, ready and willing to allow them to do so. ?And that?s a big issue because there will be questions about professional indemnity (PI) insurance as well,? he says. ?It is possibly a significant barrier because direct property is not a financial product. So I would be very surprised if the majority of PI providers or PI policies in financial advice would cover direct property advice.?
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I'm unsure how much do you get involved in financial planning or know about the pedantic ASIC regulations on financial planning. Just to summarise the above paragraph for you.
In the financial planning world, any investment advise MUST conduct a risk assessment with the client to show their degree of risk tolerance.
After both the planner and client agree on the risk outcome, the planner can ONLY advice investments based on the APPROVED PRODUCT LIST (APL) which were a list of investment options containing from low risk (cash) to high risk (global shares) investment funds for planners to select and propose to the client. This list gets reviewed regularly by a bunch of high paying financial analyst to make sure the investment funds are in line with current regulations and risk exposure etc. However, under circumstances the planner can propose investment funds outside of the APL but there will be alot explaining that need to made to support the decision.
When it comes to audit time, auditors will question why did the planner select this investment and if there were any supporting documents (such as investments from APL) to prove this is the most suitable investment for the customer. Auditors will also question the planner if they have considered an alternative option and the reason why they don't use that option.
Now base on these regulations, how do you think a planner can advise customers which property or which suburb to buy without failing audit or risk losing their licence?
While direct property investment advice is limited, De Gori argues that planners can provide a great deal of input around how it fits within a portfolio.
?As part of financial planning, you can?t dismiss the fact that direct property ownership exists with clients,? says De Gori. ?You need to include it, particularly if there are investment properties, because the asset allocation consideration of the weighting of assets will be heavily influenced.?
One of the greatest considerations is whether the client can afford to buy or invest in direct property, says De Gori. ?The financial planner can do 99 per cent of the process in terms of the recommendation towards including property as part of the portfolio and their investments strategy,? he says. ?But the next step of actually selecting a property is the tricky part.?
De Gori says planners can get accredited to provide direct property advice by getting a Real Estate Agent licence. And property advice accreditation and training are certainly not barriers for planners. De Gori says that while the FPA does not offer any specialist accredited courses on direct property, there are a number of providers in the market.
Yet De Gori notes that direct property investment advice is not a natural fit legislatively and a planner?s jurisdiction is also limited because of the state-based legislation around property. And with that comes a further licensing hurdle advisers must overcome, which involves borrowing to invest.*
?This is where you are potentially entering the world of mortgage broking, credit licensing and so forth,? says De Gori.*
The alternative is for financial planning firms joining with or developing relationships with property specialists. Australian Unity general manager, property, mortgages and banking, Mark Pratt, says there is scope for financial planning groups to partner with property organisations.*
?But obviously around that comes the appropriate regulation and disclosure,? he says. ?I?m not certain that [financial planning] organisations have really thought through that. It is a concept we have toyed with but is not one that we have moved forward with at the moment.?
Pratt says ultimately dealer groups are going to have to make the decision about whether they have the capability to give that kind of advice, and there are considerations around approved product lists.
?Product has to be rated before the dealer group will recommend it,? he says, noting that direct property investment therefore falls outside of some of that risk management process.
De Gori says that even if a planner would like to specialise in property, their own licensee would have to be comfortable, ready and willing to allow them to do so. ?And that?s a big issue because there will be questions about professional indemnity (PI) insurance as well,? he says. ?It is possibly a significant barrier because direct property is not a financial product. So I would be very surprised if the majority of PI providers or PI policies in financial advice would cover direct property advice.?
************************************************
I'm unsure how much do you get involved in financial planning or know about the pedantic ASIC regulations on financial planning. Just to summarise the above paragraph for you.
In the financial planning world, any investment advise MUST conduct a risk assessment with the client to show their degree of risk tolerance.
After both the planner and client agree on the risk outcome, the planner can ONLY advice investments based on the APPROVED PRODUCT LIST (APL) which were a list of investment options containing from low risk (cash) to high risk (global shares) investment funds for planners to select and propose to the client. This list gets reviewed regularly by a bunch of high paying financial analyst to make sure the investment funds are in line with current regulations and risk exposure etc. However, under circumstances the planner can propose investment funds outside of the APL but there will be alot explaining that need to made to support the decision.
When it comes to audit time, auditors will question why did the planner select this investment and if there were any supporting documents (such as investments from APL) to prove this is the most suitable investment for the customer. Auditors will also question the planner if they have considered an alternative option and the reason why they don't use that option.
Now base on these regulations, how do you think a planner can advise customers which property or which suburb to buy without failing audit or risk losing their licence?
There is nothing wrong with anyone having their opinion on investment property regardless of their occupation, however, when it comes to charging a fee under the name of "financial planner" that's when people start getting confused with an actual accredited financial planner versus a so call property financial planner that try to sell OTP to the public.
Not sure what you mean. But a financial planner can charge a fee to advise on property.
However if that financial planner is just a sales person for a developer or if they are getting a commission from the sale of the property then they would be breaching the Corporations Act and other laws. It probably does happen, but I think most of the sellers of the off the plan properties out there do not have an AFSL licence or authorised rep status.
I think I have sparked a bit of discussion. As a FP I can give advice on cashflow analysis for property or do scenarios of buying a property vs not buying a property, etc. Like Sumterrence has said most FP are limited by their APL. Most if it now would not have direct property on their APL.
I dont give advice on which property to buy, when and where and how much to pay. It is just too much risk for myself and my insurance premiums would go through the roof. Imagine if my client came back to me and said you told me to buy this property and it has now gone backwards and so forth. This area is still very grey and personally unless your involved in direct property everyday and know absolutely every area in Australia how can you say your an expert. Off course you can know an area really well and profess to be an expert in that area. I don't believe in off the plan stuff, I personally wouldn't buy it so why would I refer it to my clients.
In terms of direct property to build wealth, I believe in it off course given I am on this forum. I just have to be very carefully given this is a very regulated industry and lawyers are always circling.
I dont give advice on which property to buy, when and where and how much to pay. It is just too much risk for myself and my insurance premiums would go through the roof. Imagine if my client came back to me and said you told me to buy this property and it has now gone backwards and so forth. This area is still very grey and personally unless your involved in direct property everyday and know absolutely every area in Australia how can you say your an expert. Off course you can know an area really well and profess to be an expert in that area. I don't believe in off the plan stuff, I personally wouldn't buy it so why would I refer it to my clients.
In terms of direct property to build wealth, I believe in it off course given I am on this forum. I just have to be very carefully given this is a very regulated industry and lawyers are always circling.
