Dural / Kenthurst / Annangrove / Glenhaven Market

[jmillar]

Just wondering if anyone has any experience in this market, has any tips on what to look for, and has an idea of what way the market is currently moving?

A family member is looking for 1-5 acres of land, either with a 3bdr+ house or they will knock down and rebuild something modern.

A prominent local agent in the area has told them to wait 6 months as prices will crash, but given that it doesn't look like the market has picked up anywhere near as much as other areas, I doubt this would be the case.

Your thoughts?

Cheers

 

[Jacque]

A prominent local agent in the area has told them to wait 6 months as prices will crash, but given that it doesn't look like the market has picked up anywhere near as much as other areas, I doubt this would be the case.

Your thoughts?

Cheers

Hmm I'd like to know which prominent agent said that? Interesting....
I do know this area a smidge OK maybe a tad more and my response is that it totally depends on what price bracket you're looking at... the $2m+ is still tricky but most well located good properties on decent arable land and with well built homes under this are selling well (for acreage). What you need to understand is with acreage, days on market (DOM) are generally longer than your normal suburban areas, due to higher entry costs. Vendors also seem more willing to hold out longer for their price, due to this.... most sellers in these areas are not under mortgage stress so usually don't need to sell for a loss or quickly compared to other FHB areas.

If they're looking in the sub $1.1-1.2m price bracket I've only been seeing properties here sell faster with generally less DOM than 12 mths ago. When you compare what $1.5m buys you in nearby Castle Hill and then what the same $$$ can buy you 10-15mins up the road you have to wonder why more buyers don't see the value in buying on land. I know, I know... it's further away, it's higher maintenance and not everyone likes the solitude and peace of acreage but I'm a convert

For example this one in KH sold recently for just $1.3m. Quiet location, decent 5 acre block (approx 1/3 arable with remainder bush to rear) renovated 4x2 with pool. http://www.surroundpix.com.au/real-estate/nsw/kenthurst/2156/349922/still-photos/

I thought this one was a good buy and certainly someone else thought so too, given it took less than 3 weeks to sell.

If you have any other general questions feel free to ask

 

[jmillar]

Hi Jacque,

They're looking to spend $1.3M max. They're mainly looking for something with good land component - they're happy to rebuild. It isn't proving to be easy though!!

Is the market in the area seeing growth that Outer Western Sydney regions are? Do you think this would be a bit lagged due to the higher entry price?

107 Porters Road looks great - I don't think my family members ever came across this - they only started looking seriously about 3-4 weeks ago.

What sort of DOM do you generally expect for properties under the $1.3M mark in these areas (given they are priced in line with market)?

Thanks for all your help.

 

[RetireRich101]

15yrs ago I used to work as sales engineer for a very small firm located in that Kenthurst village. Time to time my boss, also lives in KH will drive us around showing us some beautiful private acreage properties of KH where they have dedicated gardeners.

wondering the acreage in those areas are good land banking sites for urban development?

we saw how the NWGC and SWGC precinct acreage shot up in value over time when marked for urban development..

 

[RetireRich101]

Hi Jacque,

Is the market in the area seeing growth that Outer Western Sydney regions are? Do you think this would be a bit lagged due to the higher entry price?

maybe I am wrong, but those acreage properties in those areas are currently zoned as Rural, meaning you cant subdivide into smaller lots as servicing and release/rezone not ready.
If zoned as rural, I don't think you even do dual occ, meaning a granny flat as such.
Also if you don't do any raw product for a business, such as farming or agriculture, you may be liable for land tax even a PPOR. This could be massive....

 

[Jacque]

maybe I am wrong, but those acreage properties in those areas are currently zoned as Rural, meaning you cant subdivide into smaller lots as servicing and release/rezone not ready.
If zoned as rural, I don't think you even do dual occ, meaning a granny flat as such.
Also if you don't do any raw product for a business, such as farming or agriculture, you may be liable for land tax even a PPOR. This could be massive....

As of Oct 2012 state legislation allows for granny flats to be built on acreage lots (limited 60sqm or 20% of the principal dwelling- whichever is larger) so whilst you can't subdivide you can certainly build g/fs now.

Correct about land tax being costly if no primary production taking place on the land however, as with everything, this needs to be considered a cost of investing wherever you buy.

 

[Jacque]

What sort of DOM do you generally expect for properties under the $1.3M mark in these areas (given they are priced in line with market)?

Thanks for all your help.

DOM is actually irrelevant- what is more important is constant contact with ALL the agents who service these areas so you hear about listings when not yet on the market or just fresh. Actively looking means just this, or you will miss out on the gems when they do appear.

 

[JT7]

Hi Jmiller & Jacque,

We live on acreage in Glenorie and I have to say Jmiller, I don't know which RE you spoke to but IMHO I would not be following their misguided advice whether it be well meant or not....

The acreage market usually lags the more conventional residential market (Correct me if I'm wrong here Jacque).

I have kept somewhat of a lazy eye on the market out here and I've noticed some movement to the upside but there are still some bargains to be had in this market. Personally, and I admit I have a vested interest, but I truly believe the acreage is severely undervalued and at any rate, if it's your PPOR, IMHO there is no better place to live. 20 minutes drive to Castle Hill or Hornsby (train & shops) or 40 minutes drive to George Street, Sydney on a good day. The lifestyle benefits are sensational but again I don't mind not seeing my neighbours for days on end and I love to read and not have to talk to anyone lol.

Earlier this year, and this may be of interest to you Jacque, the Hornsby Shire Council officially asked landowners their opinions on being allowed to sub-divide down to 1 acre blocks and around the Galston and Glenorie town centres right down to medium density.

There are still those whom choose to use the land as primary producers out this way and would opt not to sub-divide however, there are many many families who have held land for generations and being able to sub-divide would be beneficial to the family.

There is no doubt that if it where possible to break the blocks down to 1 acre this would greatly increase the value of the land. I saw about 7 acre blocks for sale down at the back end of Glenorie towards Canoelands however, I'm not sure whether they are still on the market.

Progress and the ever expansion of humanity is relentless unfortunately. We now have a Woolworths Superstore here in Glenorie, a new power station down Cattai Ridge Road and plans for sewage.

The very best of luck with it jmiller it's a fantastic lifestyle away from the crowds.

 

[JT7]

A prominent local agent in the area has told them to wait 6 months as prices will crash, but given that it doesn't look like the market has picked up anywhere near as much as other areas, I doubt this would be the case.

Your thoughts?

Cheers

Further to my previous post....

Your experience with this prominent RE reminds me of a funny short story.

When my wife and I were starting to leverage into property, my brother-in-law (My wife's brother), came to me and said property is going to crash by at least 50% over the following couple of years so you'd better watch out mate.... He handed me a printed off copy of a report by none other than Steve Keen and walked away with a smile on his face

About 18 months later and after we had experienced some good capital growth in our portfolio he came back to me and wanted some advice on purchasing a property for himself.....

I told him to why not wait until the property market corrects 50%, just like he said it would, and pick himself up an absolute bargain!

That was several years ago now

 

[Jacque]

Hi Jmiller & Jacque,

We live on acreage in Glenorie and I have to say Jmiller, I don't know which RE you spoke to but IMHO I would not be following their misguided advice whether it be well meant or not....

The acreage market usually lags the more conventional residential market (Correct me if I'm wrong here Jacque).

I have kept somewhat of a lazy eye on the market out here and I've noticed some movement to the upside but there are still some bargains to be had in this market. Personally, and I admit I have a vested interest, but I truly believe the acreage is severely undervalued and at any rate, if it's your PPOR, IMHO there is no better place to live. 20 minutes drive to Castle Hill or Hornsby (train & shops) or 40 minutes drive to George Street, Sydney on a good day. The lifestyle benefits are sensational but again I don't mind not seeing my neighbours for days on end and I love to read and not have to talk to anyone lol.

Earlier this year, and this may be of interest to you Jacque, the Hornsby Shire Council officially asked landowners their opinions on being allowed to sub-divide down to 1 acre blocks and around the Galston and Glenorie town centres right down to medium density.

There are still those whom choose to use the land as primary producers out this way and would opt not to sub-divide however, there are many many families who have held land for generations and being able to sub-divide would be beneficial to the family.

There is no doubt that if it where possible to break the blocks down to 1 acre this would greatly increase the value of the land. I saw about 7 acre blocks for sale down at the back end of Glenorie towards Canoelands however, I'm not sure whether they are still on the market.

Progress and the ever expansion of humanity is relentless unfortunately. We now have a Woolworths Superstore here in Glenorie, a new power station down Cattai Ridge Road and plans for sewage.

The very best of luck with it jmiller it's a fantastic lifestyle away from the crowds.

Hey JT
You echo my sentiments exactly (I think we'd get on well indeed ) and one of the reasons we bought where we did was for possible future rezoning.... mind you even if it never goes ahead we plan to hang on to our "rural retreat" for as long as we can, to the extent that I'd seriously consider renting our next place and keeping this one for weekend visits I love it that much

Coming home each day my blood pressure drops as soon as I approach Kenthurst Rd- it truly is an oasis out here and I've never regretted our choice for a second. I have gotten used to the extra kms on the road but my recent car choice has helped a little in even making driving more enjoyable

Interesting about the Glenorie area- we've bought for several clients out here and whilst none have expressed interest yet in subdividing you're right, in that it will eventually happen. Dural being the closest semi-rural suburb to Sydney CBD it's really only a matter of time.... I well recall (now I'm showing my age) what Baulkham Hills and Kellyville were like many moons ago!!

 

[twobobsworth]

Would love to live out there, but I hate snakes.

Any rezoning will be at least 20 years away.

 

[jmillar]

Thanks for all the advice.

Looking at RPData, a lot of the properties on the market at present (in Dural/Kenthurst/Annangrove) seem to be bought for 5-15% more 8-10 years ago.

Also, looking at how well-priced a modest house in 2 arable acres can be in comparison to a concrete mansion on a small block in Castle Hill, Rouse Hill etc, I wouldn't have thought prices are going to drop any time soon.

Also, a friend of mine is an agent in a nearby area and she suggested that a lot of the property owners in these areas are either business owners or top level managers. A lot of businesses have been doing it tough for the past few years, and are only just beginning to pick up, so I assume this will push the prices up when business is strong again. Correct me if I'm wrong Jacque?

 

[JT7]

Hey JT
You echo my sentiments exactly (I think we'd get on well indeed ) and one of the reasons we bought where we did was for possible future rezoning.... mind you even if it never goes ahead we plan to hang on to our "rural retreat" for as long as we can, to the extent that I'd seriously consider renting our next place and keeping this one for weekend visits I love it that much

Coming home each day my blood pressure drops as soon as I approach Kenthurst Rd- it truly is an oasis out here and I've never regretted our choice for a second. I have gotten used to the extra kms on the road but my recent car choice has helped a little in even making driving more enjoyable

Interesting about the Glenorie area- we've bought for several clients out here and whilst none have expressed interest yet in subdividing you're right, in that it will eventually happen. Dural being the closest semi-rural suburb to Sydney CBD it's really only a matter of time.... I well recall (now I'm showing my age) what Baulkham Hills and Kellyville were like many moons ago!!

Hey Jacque,

I had a sneaky suspicion you might have been from out this way

It is a very special part of the world. And, I know exactly what you mean in relation to crossing the imaginary border. I experience similar feelings on the way home from work...in fact I'll go further to say it's therapeutic after a long day . I purposely take the long way around down Wirrabara, Davey, Wyoming Roads then back up onto Old Northern Road and onto Glenorie.

Great minds.

Jack

 

[JT7]

Would love to live out there, but I hate snakes.

Any rezoning will be at least 20 years away.

Yeah me too mate! They give me the willys

 

[PaulF]

Love the hills area. I own a 3 bedroom property at Glenhaven on a smallish block of land (925sqm) and I also used to live in Dural on acreage; best life style ever
Plan is to keep the Glenhaven property and when the time is right, buy acreage around Glenorie/Dural area.

As for snakes, we had a few vicious cats that kept the area around the house pretty safe

 

[mini2]

Is it likely Kenthurst will become another Kellyville where acreage will be chopped up into smaller lots for sale? What are the holding costs for properties in these area zoned as 'rural'?

Thanks

 

[JT7]

Is it likely Kenthurst will become another Kellyville where acreage will be chopped up into smaller lots for sale? What are the holding costs for properties in these area zoned as 'rural'?

Thanks

A friend of mine has a 25 acre block in the family in Kenthurst somewhere down towards Maraylya and they have just been rezoned down to 5 acre blocks which I thought was interesting.

It would be interesting to see....

I'll give you the tip though...a residential block in Kenthurst would attract a fairly hefty premium compared to the equivalent in Kellyville (No offence to anybody in Kellyville). Instant millionaires I would imagine