Buying in Atlanta

Hi MTR,

You have done a great job. How many properties do you at least need to have in US ,to make it worthwhile? You might have lot of cash sitting in your bank, but I have to borrow the money.
Is it worthwhile to buy a few in US instead of buying $300-400k here? How many visits did you have to make to buy each property?I am denifitely Mum& Dad type and it will be 2nd IP.

I am told the agents charge heaps for maintenance where they actually make money.

Thanks in advance.
 
Almost always no fenced yards. My guess is that because the hoa mows the lawn they want to get a clear run at it

I saw a great 5 bed 3 bath 330 sqm house for sale at $75k. Only needs a $3k reno. Would have been $1m anywhere in sydney. You really are getting value for money there.

Hi Matt

The lack of back fences has nothing to do with HOA's. In fact most of the HOA's covering independent houses do not take care of any of the gardening, front or back.

The Yanks in the main live on their decks or concrete pad adjacent to their back door. If you look at pic's of the house you will find everything concentrated on the concrete pad with 1/4 acre completely bare. So not much point fencing something you don't care about.

Re a 330 sqm house only needing a $3k reno - your dreaming;)

Just to get a property that size rent ready will cost way more than that. If it needs carpet than that $3k is gone on that alone. If it needs and Air con then that's $2500 per unit with a house that size likely having 2.

The consequences of you not making a property rent ready will be that all the other competing rentals have been made rent ready and you simply won't get a tenant.

Beyond the rent ready concept just getting the house for that price is now very challenging. So if you saw it on Zillow then it's likely to have already sold or have multiple and higher offers on it.

These are just the realities of the market.

Cheers
 
Hi Matt

The lack of back fences has nothing to do with HOA's. In fact most of the HOA's covering independent houses do not take care of any of the gardening, front or back.

The Yanks in the main live on their decks or concrete pad adjacent to their back door. If you look at pic's of the house you will find everything concentrated on the concrete pad with 1/4 acre completely bare. So not much point fencing something you don't care about.

Re a 330 sqm house only needing a $3k reno - your dreaming;)

Just to get a property that size rent ready will cost way more than that. If it needs carpet than that $3k is gone on that alone. If it needs and Air con then that's $2500 per unit with a house that size likely having 2.

The consequences of you not making a property rent ready will be that all the other competing rentals have been made rent ready and you simply won't get a tenant.

Beyond the rent ready concept just getting the house for that price is now very challenging. So if you saw it on Zillow then it's likely to have already sold or have multiple and higher offers on it.

These are just the realities of the market.

Cheers

Handy Andy,

I believe Matt was referring to one of the properties he viewed with us during his visit to Atlanta.

It is 3300 square feet, 5 bedrooms/3 bath house. The rehab including all new appliances came in at 6-7k from memory. We did have another we purchased recently that was 3500 square feet and the rehab was under 4k. Both were renovated to "rent ready" standard. In fact one of them has already rented , tenant moves in 1st October and the other is about to be listed on the rental market.

Here is a link to the photos so you can see the condition the home was in.
http://s1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/selectamericanhomes/Ballantine/?albumview=slideshow

We also secured another home recently just under 3000 sqft, rehab came in at $4500.

That is however not the norm in terms of rehab costs for this size home. These 3 homes were very well maintained.
 
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Karina is correct. I went through it when i was in atlanta. Basically nothing that needed to be done on the house.
 
Karina is correct. I went through it when i was in atlanta. Basically nothing that needed to be done on the house.

So where was the $3k going to be spent?

Just to put cages of the A/C units is near $1000 for good ones.

Pest control system $700 to start

Cheers
 
Handy Andy,

It did need a full set of kitchen appliances, some minor paint touch ups mainly doors and trims, carpet in main closet, 2 entire garage door opener units(not just the remotes), blinds, fans in bedrooms, pressure wash, some repairs and lots of little things.

Th big ticket items like replacing HVAC's carpets and full repaint were not required.
 
Property Expo is on this weekend in Melbourne. We are at stand 217. Feel free to pop in and say hi

Here is a link to free tickets for anyone that would like to attend.

www.homebuyershow.com.au/special-offers/select-american-homes-free-ticket-offer/

2012 Melbourne Opening Times
Friday 5 October 2012: 12pm – 5pm
Saturday 6 October 2012: 10am – 5pm
Sunday 7 October 2012: 10am – 5pm

Melbourne Convention & Exhibition Centre
2 Clarendon St, Southbank, Victoria, 300
 
Hello all,
Are there still good opportunities in the US, and if so, which states/cities still have good cashflow (with capital growth to boot)? I am considering purchasing through an Australian-based buyers agent company.
Thanks,
RH
 
Hello all,
Are there still good opportunities in the US, and if so, which states/cities still have good cashflow (with capital growth to boot)? I am considering purchasing through an Australian-based buyers agent company.
Thanks,
RH

Who is the company ??
 
$10,000 fine

:eek:
Yes - it would be great to have an update another year on.

Price growth, tenant experiences, any surprises?

That was my big surprise this year $10,000 penalty because my tax accountant for US properties did not check the name of the LLC, in other words wrong name and IRS could not match it up when requesting an extension for tax return so I received a penalty, nothing major:eek:

It should be overturned accountant has explained, provided evidence that tax was completed etc. In US they don't mess about you pay up and then we talk, ATO are nice guys in comparison.

Apart from this most of the other stuff is coming along quite well, tenants paying, money coming in, some minor maintenance issues. Bringing home money now and its a nice surprise transferred $10,000 and got $11,000 back due the $Au coming down. US property in Atlanta still rising, am still hoping to sell it all and perhaps double my money over the next 12-18 months.

MTR:)
 
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Well seeing you asked.

For the year July 2012 - June 2013

7 properties rented out for the full year. 2 properties rented out for 1/2 a year 1 property just rented for 4 months. Total 11 properties

We had 1 property empty as we furnished it and lived in it for about 4 months.

Average cost per property including reno $74k. Average rent $1200 per month. So gross return around 20%

Total invested $814k

Years gross income $119k (so rent on 8 properties)

Expenses approx $53k

Accounting fees $2-3k

Income before interest $63k

Total invested $814k

Return 7.7% net before interest

These figures are not 100% accurate as there are some expenses for properties that weren't rented. But the figures do not change substantially.


Dramas

1 Property trashed by tenant - cost to fix $5k Empty for extended period due to slow tenant placement.
1 Property needed new A/C - cost $2.5k would have been north of $3k if I had left it for the PM to attend to.
1 Property broken into because PM took so long to place tenant. Cost $3.5k to fix after having just spent $14k on reno.

This financial year.

The next financial year should be better as all 11 properties will be rented.

As such the expected gross income will be about $158k. I would expect the expenses to stay about the same. But for this exercise say they will be about $60k Thus, this financial years net return should be about 11-12%.

This figures can easily take a dive as a tenant placement fee is 1 months rent and tenant like to start their occupancy at the beginning of the month so very easy to loose 1-2 months rent plus the placement fee.

Capital Gain

Who knows. They have moved up in value but not enough to make it all worthwhile. Selling fees are 6% which is a big chunk. Then add legals etc it will all eat into the sales profit. The average prices for the properties are currently around $120k - retail. I am hanging out for an average of about the $160k mark.

This would then deliver a 100% gain after selling expenses. In the meantime I can collect the rent and hope there are no major dramas and related large expenses.

I know that one of the houses needs the roof replaced. What do you expect when you use tar paper with sand on top as roofing sheets.:( Also, this is our oldest house built in 1988, but these shingles only last 25 years.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GAF-25-Y...3-Tab-Shingles-0201180/100040028#.UjbW7H_p-YM

We had this roof repaired in the last reno but that just replaced about 20 sheets. I would estimate that the cost of reroofing will be in the vicinity of $12-15k.

Advise

If you were still seriously thinking about investing in the US then these are the points I will make.

Buy as new as possible. The newer the better as these houses aren't made to last.
Buy as cheap as possible in the best area possible. Remember you make your money when you buy not when you sell.
You really need to visit the area you intend to buy in and educate yourself as the sellers will tell you that the area they have available property is the best (but it's only the best for them;)) You might be Ok but them again maybe not.


Would I be buying now?

No. The dollar and the market has moved against the buyer. The spuikers are starting to market some OK properties but at a much higher entry point and the rent is certainly not going up. At best the rental market is stagnant or actually decreasing due to competition.

Wages are not increasing so very hard to see any real increases in income and am even doubting reaching my ultimate selling prices. If the is some real inflation and wages actually increase then thing will move my way. If not I will just keep collecting the rent. Coupled with a falling AUD this will work for me.

Cheers
 
Well seeing you asked.

For the year July 2012 - June 2013

7 properties rented out for the full year. 2 properties rented out for 1/2 a year 1 property just rented for 4 months. Total 11 properties

We had 1 property empty as we furnished it and lived in it for about 4 months.

Average cost per property including reno $74k. Average rent $1200 per month. So gross return around 20%

Total invested $814k

Years gross income $119k (so rent on 8 properties)

Expenses approx $53k

Accounting fees $2-3k

Income before interest $63k

Total invested $814k

Return 7.7% net before interest

These figures are not 100% accurate as there are some expenses for properties that weren't rented. But the figures do not change substantially.


Dramas

1 Property trashed by tenant - cost to fix $5k Empty for extended period due to slow tenant placement.
1 Property needed new A/C - cost $2.5k would have been north of $3k if I had left it for the PM to attend to.
1 Property broken into because PM took so long to place tenant. Cost $3.5k to fix after having just spent $14k on reno.

This financial year.

The next financial year should be better as all 11 properties will be rented.

As such the expected gross income will be about $158k. I would expect the expenses to stay about the same. But for this exercise say they will be about $60k Thus, this financial years net return should be about 11-12%.

This figures can easily take a dive as a tenant placement fee is 1 months rent and tenant like to start their occupancy at the beginning of the month so very easy to loose 1-2 months rent plus the placement fee.

Capital Gain

Who knows. They have moved up in value but not enough to make it all worthwhile. Selling fees are 6% which is a big chunk. Then add legals etc it will all eat into the sales profit. The average prices for the properties are currently around $120k - retail. I am hanging out for an average of about the $160k mark.

This would then deliver a 100% gain after selling expenses. In the meantime I can collect the rent and hope there are no major dramas and related large expenses.

I know that one of the houses needs the roof replaced. What do you expect when you use tar paper with sand on top as roofing sheets.:( Also, this is our oldest house built in 1988, but these shingles only last 25 years.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GAF-25-Y...3-Tab-Shingles-0201180/100040028#.UjbW7H_p-YM

We had this roof repaired in the last reno but that just replaced about 20 sheets. I would estimate that the cost of reroofing will be in the vicinity of $12-15k.

Advise

If you were still seriously thinking about investing in the US then these are the points I will make.

Buy as new as possible. The newer the better as these houses aren't made to last.
Buy as cheap as possible in the best area possible. Remember you make your money when you buy not when you sell.
You really need to visit the area you intend to buy in and educate yourself as the sellers will tell you that the area they have available property is the best (but it's only the best for them;)) You might be Ok but them again maybe not.


Would I be buying now?

No. The dollar and the market has moved against the buyer. The spuikers are starting to market some OK properties but at a much higher entry point and the rent is certainly not going up. At best the rental market is stagnant or actually decreasing due to competition.

Wages are not increasing so very hard to see any real increases in income and am even doubting reaching my ultimate selling prices. If the is some real inflation and wages actually increase then thing will move my way. If not I will just keep collecting the rent. Coupled with a falling AUD this will work for me.

Cheers

Hi HA
Thanks for the excellent feedback on your experience so far.

I think we can agree, now is not the time to be buying in Atlanta for the reasons you mentioned.

Cheers
MTR
 
Hi Goldenfuture,

I wouldn't be investing in the US market with the hopes of capital growth.

This is a big uncertainty and anyone that guarantees a particular area will go up in value in the near future is full of it in my opinion.

Investing shouldn't be based on capital growth predictions any way but the numbers in that deal. Income vs expenses.

In saying this I do believe that one day the market will start to go up substantially but when this will be I can't say.

Ok I got that spiel out of the way haha

We are based in Kansas City. There are some great opportunities here.

Great yields. Not much growth but the yield is amazing.

We find that there is much more competition when buying compared to one year ago.

Also, absolutely loving the market in Toledo, Ohio.

Solid B class areas
Great yields

Great tenants.

Thanks for reading and have a great day.
 
Hi Goldenfuture,

I wouldn't be investing in the US market with the hopes of capital growth.

This is a big uncertainty and anyone that guarantees a particular area will go up in value in the near future is full of it in my opinion.

Investing shouldn't be based on capital growth predictions any way but the numbers in that deal. Income vs expenses.

In saying this I do believe that one day the market will start to go up substantially but when this will be I can't say.

Ok I got that spiel out of the way haha

We are based in Kansas City. There are some great opportunities here.

Great yields. Not much growth but the yield is amazing.

We find that there is much more competition when buying compared to one year ago.

Also, absolutely loving the market in Toledo, Ohio.

Solid B class areas
Great yields

Great tenants.

Thanks for reading and have a great day.

Hi Engelo

One of the reasons why I am not recommending purchasing foreclosure properties in USA today is because the property values have already moved/risen considerably and the yield is no longer attractive, as there are so many more out of pocket expenses that are not mentioned by many companies selling US properties.

There has been significant growth in certain markets, however the horse has already bolted. Handy Andy mentioned his properties average value today is around $120,000, he was purchasing properties some 2 years ago for anywhere from $38,000-78,000, this has occurred due to the demand from foreign investors and US super funds which are buying up in certain markets such as Atlanta, Arizona. The banks are also managing the amount of foreclosures they throw on the market to maximise sale price and create more competition. It has been very difficult for BA to secure foreclosure properties directly from the bank and continues to be the case today. The product that many companies are selling are purchased at auction where there is a mix of good and bad properties and of course there is huge mark up.

MTR
 
Hi MTR,

Ohhh Yes.

Its a different world being here on the ground and seeing it first hand. I have been to numerous seminars while living in Sydney and have seen the properties promoted by many turn key operators and also the way they crunch the numbers.

Its very sad stuff as it makes other doing a good job look bad.

The hedge funds have been buying up all of the B class inventory as you mentioned in Atlanta, Arizona and also North Carolina, Texas and I recently found out in St Louis.

I have herd that so far they have no interest in the market here in Kansas City which is good for us so we can still get good deals.

There are definitely still great deals to be bought. I am looking forward to what the future brings.

Thanks and have a great day.
 
Hi MTR,

Ohhh Yes.

Its a different world being here on the ground and seeing it first hand. I have been to numerous seminars while living in Sydney and have seen the properties promoted by many turn key operators and also the way they crunch the numbers.

Its very sad stuff as it makes other doing a good job look bad.

The hedge funds have been buying up all of the B class inventory as you mentioned in Atlanta, Arizona and also North Carolina, Texas and I recently found out in St Louis.

I have herd that so far they have no interest in the market here in Kansas City which is good for us so we can still get good deals.

There are definitely still great deals to be bought. I am looking forward to what the future brings.

Thanks and have a great day.

Hi Engelo
Then I have to ask the question... why are they not interested in the Kansas Market???

Cheers
MTR
 
Hi MTR,

Thanks for your comment.

Not sure to be honest.

They also aren't buying in Indiana, Ohio, New York.

What do you think is the reason?

Thanks.
 
Guys thanks for the numbers. Very interesting to see.

I'm not sure what your expenses relate to, but I presume being here you have more accountant, agency fees and unforeseen costs. 7.7% certainly is strong, but definitely something that is replicatable in very good locations (as usual, 2km from CBD) in Sydney/Melbourne with some brain power and brawn power. 10%+ is a bit harder.

I guess the interesting thing from all this is that, the real value came from the capital growth. If you had leverage, presumably that's where the US market shines/shone.

I know that a lot of foreigners buying in the US was not able to get the cheap 3% rates the Americans got. Did people get around that? Or did you pay cash?
 
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