North Perth R60 Apartment block thread

westminster

westminster

I picked up a house in North Perth. $595k on a 460sqm block with a 3 x 1 house which is basically a 4 x 2.

Good things about the deal:
- block is R60. So I can build 322 sqm of apartments on it. (4 x 3 bedrooms perhaps) Nb density bonus allows up to 460sqm of apartments on this
- has a rear laneway for easy parking for apartments
- is rented out by the room for 800-900 per week

Downsides:
- on a busy main road. I'm not worried about that - it means public transport, shops/amenities close by, less parking required etc.

At $1300/sqm I'm pretty happy to get a R60 block in North Perth.

Vision

Probably the most parking bays I can get on this is 4 across the rear laneway. I can stretch it from single to tandem but still only 4 apartments worth. Might be able to do some vespa bays though.

With parking for 4 I'm limited to 4 apartments unless I can wrangle some studio + vespa bay allowances.

At 4 apartments this is still a good deal.

Highly approximate numbers
- land $620k inc stamps
- construction inc headworks blah blah $6-700k (based on 350sqm construction)
- holding costs nil (this is a SMSF purchase with no borrowings)
- total $1.2-1.3 cost
- end value approx $500k each = $2m (pretty conservative)
 
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mrdobalina said:
Where is your Highgate one at wm? Is this one with the same council?
Click to expand...

Yes I will have 3 with my favourite council :)
Highgate #1 is having more mediation on Tuesday. This will be final mediation. My option after that is full hearing or back up plan.
Highgate #2 is almost finished design phase. I'll put up some elevation pictures today
 
Very exciting! I'm curious if you will include anything like double glazed windows to reduce noise being on a busy street?
 
westminster said:
I picked up a house in North Perth. $595k on a 460sqm block with a 3 x 1 house which is basically a 4 x 2.

Good things about the deal:
- block is R60. So I can build 322 sqm of apartments on it. (4 x 3 bedrooms perhaps) (zoning not mentioned in ad)
- has a rear laneway for easy parking for apartments
- is rented out by the room for 800-900 per week ( high rent not mentioned in ad)

Downsides:
- on a busy main road. I'm not worried about that - it means public transport, shops/amenities close by, less parking required etc.

At $1300/sqm I'm pretty happy to get a R60 block in North Perth.
Click to expand...

Looks like a cracker of a deal. Should help to keep holding cost to a minimum while working on DA.
 
I would say $500K each is conservative, I would expect at least $550K, new product. Curious why SMSF?? What's the end plan for this, can not access equity, purely cash flow right??
That pocket has a few new deve opposite, I prefer left side of Charles going towards city (your side of the road), may seem minor but its not, as it is bumper to bumper traffic on opposite side after 4.00 pm, a very big issue, pain in the ar$e.

Once again, well done, keep them churning, good for you:)

Cheers
MTR:)
 
MTR said:
I would say $500K each is conservative, I would expect at least $550K, new product. Curious why SMSF?? What's the end plan for this, can not access equity, purely cash flow right??
That pocket has a few new deve opposite, I prefer left side of Charles going towards city (your side of the road), may seem minor but its not, as it is bumper to bumper traffic on opposite side after 4.00 pm, a very big issue, pain in the ar$e.

Once again, well done, keep them churning, good for you:)

Cheers
MTR:)
Click to expand...

Correct, I'm hoping to do the magic trick of turning $1.2m into $2.2m :D That is an insane figure of gross profit but the numbers are very loosy goosy at the moment so I'm not getting hung up on that.

SMSF is for a few reasons which suit us:
- low tax on profit
- ability to still develop, sell or hold. If we sell it just goes back into SMSF
- I think I can grow it faster than a normal SF
- ability to use the funds in the SMSF and not borrow money if we keep the project under the money in the fund.
 
Great stuff.
Don't want to hijack the thread but perhaps we can all learn from what you are doing here and also look at potential of apartments in inner city.

Here is a R60, smaller block, obviously I am not purchasing this, but location looks OK close to Mt Hawthorn, great, plenty of apartments going up here. Do you mind sharing what you could do with this block in terms of number of apartments etc. I need to have a close look at the R codes and work through it, but appreciate your feedback.

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-residential+land-wa-mount+hawthorn-200834203

Thanks
MTR:)
 
westminster said:
Correct, I'm hoping to do the magic trick of turning $1.2m into $2.2m :D That is an insane figure of gross profit but the numbers are very loosy goosy at the moment so I'm not getting hung up on that.

SMSF is for a few reasons which suit us:
- low tax on profit
- ability to still develop, sell or hold. If we sell it just goes back into SMSF
- I think I can grow it faster than a normal SF
- ability to use the funds in the SMSF and not borrow money if we keep the project under the money in the fund.
Click to expand...

Great work, looks like an excellent deal.

Nice to see you come to the dark side re SMSF...:D
 
MTR said:
Great stuff.
Don't want to hijack the thread but perhaps we can all learn from what you are doing here and also look at potential of apartments in inner city.

Here is a R60, smaller block, obviously I am not purchasing this, but location looks OK close to Mt Hawthorn, great, plenty of apartments going up here. Do you mind sharing what you could do with this block in terms of number of apartments etc. I need to have a close look at the R codes and work through it, but appreciate your feedback.

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-residential+land-wa-mount+hawthorn-200834203

Thanks
MTR:)
Click to expand...

From a mathematical perspective this would be 0.7 x 407 = 285sqm. That would be 4 of 2 x 2s and maybe 1 of 1 x 1 or 3 of 3 x 2 and a 1 x 1

Logistically it's a bit high risk block as it has no laneway for easy parking. Access to garaging would have to come off Scarbs Rd. And it would be squeezy but I think you might be able to fit it in - my concern is that you need 6.5m in front of the garage for reversing and the garage needs to be 5.5m deep. That is 12m and it looks like the block is about 12m wide. So only just fits. Add in a visitor parking bay as well.

BUT that means you lose 12m x 15m for parking for 5 cars of your land. If you had a laneway you'd only lose 12m x 6m. Hence I like laneways.

Laneways also provide for a wider frontage development as you don't have a driveway taking up room so you can have apartments running side by side even on a 12.5m block.

This is a rough concept of what I can do on the ground floor for my block

qryr1s.jpg
[/IMG]
 
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Very interesting to hear you talk about design and the R-codes Myf.

Im also interested in trying to look at more complex sites for future purchases, and i can read and re read the r-codes but still i think its important to be able to look at a site and then bring up all those design codes in your head to figure out a rough plan of how it would all work. How did you begin learning this? did you look at other peoples ideas, play around with drawings of your own etc?

Retain and builds/Triplex etc i am comfortable with but apartments i still need a lot of work to get my head around them.
 
Blair007 said:
Very interesting to hear you talk about design and the R-codes Myf.

Im also interested in trying to look at more complex sites for future purchases, and i can read and re read the r-codes but still i think its important to be able to look at a site and then bring up all those design codes in your head to figure out a rough plan of how it would all work. How did you begin learning this? did you look at other peoples ideas, play around with drawings of your own etc?

Retain and builds/Triplex etc i am comfortable with but apartments i still need a lot of work to get my head around them.
Click to expand...

It's not all in my head - I still constantly refer to the Rcodes like a bible :)

If you want to be able to do your own quick and dirty due diligence, then yes you need to know them pretty well. I still get it wrong sometimes but I haven't made a complete balls up of anything yet.

I play around with drawings constantly to see what could fit and options. I read Australian standards for carparking etc, health acts to find out what houses MUST have, R Codes for design and I listen, listen and listen to people that have gone before me into this.

I have learnt many good titbits from Aaron and Sanj. At one of the SS meetings Aaron was showing Sanj an apartment design which used a laneway - I asked if I could look at it and I saw how brilliant a laneway was. I look at other people's designs constantly in this state and others.

My base motivation is probably that of a bit of a control freak. I like to know everything and I want to be able to make these decisions myself. It would cost me a fortune to employ a town planner to do it and it's time that you don't always have when you want to grab a good site. Then I would be second guessing their knowledge, advice and ideas :rolleyes:.

I am actually the customer from hell - I questions my poor builder and designer decisions all the time.

I have a very visual mind. I'm constantly drawing ideas and looking outside the square.
 
This would be a cash cow, not great with maths, but is that close to 10% yield:eek:
 
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westminster said:
It's not all in my head - I still constantly refer to the Rcodes like a bible :)

If you want to be able to do your own quick and dirty due diligence, then yes you need to know them pretty well. I still get it wrong sometimes but I haven't made a complete balls up of anything yet.

I play around with drawings constantly to see what could fit and options. I read Australian standards for carparking etc, health acts to find out what houses MUST have, R Codes for design and I listen, listen and listen to people that have gone before me into this.

I have learnt many good titbits from Aaron and Sanj. At one of the SS meetings Aaron was showing Sanj an apartment design which used a laneway - I asked if I could look at it and I saw how brilliant a laneway was. I look at other people's designs constantly in this state and others.

My base motivation is probably that of a bit of a control freak. I like to know everything and I want to be able to make these decisions myself. It would cost me a fortune to employ a town planner to do it and it's time that you don't always have when you want to grab a good site. Then I would be second guessing their knowledge, advice and ideas :rolleyes:.

I am actually the customer from hell - I questions my poor builder and designer decisions all the time.

I have a very visual mind. I'm constantly drawing ideas and looking outside the square.
Click to expand...

Thanks :) i have to wait before my melbourne project is nearing completion before i can afford to buy so i have a bit of time to study, don't like waiting haha but may aswell use the extra time wisely.
 
You gotta be happy with that purchaise. the advertising for this lot was terrible.

The only downside I see to your GF layout is how to get visitors upstairs from the streetfront? How are the top floors activating the street front? Letterbox access?

Sorry - don't mean to poop on your design :)
 
Aaron Sice said:
You gotta be happy with that purchaise. the advertising for this lot was terrible.

The only downside I see to your GF layout is how to get visitors upstairs from the streetfront? How are the top floors activating the street front? Letterbox access?

Sorry - don't mean to poop on your design :)
Click to expand...

I could go retro and outside staircase ;) or put front foyer. I'm not phased and just playing with ideas.

Totally undecided whether to take the 1.0 plot ratio and stick on 6-7 apartments or just go simple with 4. I'll have to run the sums.
 
if you put the parking underground, you will more than likely get a density concession to allow the 6 or even 8.

the open space around will sell it for the DAC.

there was an 18x 1bed apartment setup on Walcott St that got a 1.1:1 in the 'old days' because the parking was underground and the building looked like it was just placed on the site.
 
Aaron Sice said:
if you put the parking underground, you will more than likely get a density concession to allow the 6 or even 8.

the open space around will sell it for the DAC.

there was an 18x 1bed apartment setup on Walcott St that got a 1.1:1 in the 'old days' because the parking was underground and the building looked like it was just placed on the site.
Click to expand...

It currently does have an undercroft garage.

The million dollar question of course is - more apartments = higher construction costs but does it = more profit. Not always. Sometimes it's better to go simple.

I'll run the sums. It's early days and many ways to skin this cat.
 
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