Rising sea levels or sinking land masses?

Following from the debate about the demise of the Great Barrier Reef I want to pose a discussion that the PC brigade seems to be very quiet about.

As you know, the Pacific Islands are currently being drowned by rising sea water levels and the Australian public is apparently obliged to take responsibility for the displaced people from our neighbouring islands. So my mother told me last year at Christmas Dinner. Bring them to Brisbane I say, our stagnant economy could do with the population growth.

Every year I sit in on Middle School geography and science classes, and we (the Qld government) teach your 14 year olds about the Ring of Fire, the volcanic islands and earthquake zone that surrounds the Pacific Ocean. On one page of the text, the National Curriculum teaches your vulnerable youth about melting Antarctic ice drifting north and flooding low-lying coastal regions, and on the next page discusses Tectonic Plate movement and massive landmasses colliding along faultlines forcing one plate beneath the other.

Which one is our new carbon tax going to stop, rising sea levels or sinking land masses?

its all about the scare, not science. Coral reefs actually need rising sea levels or a sinking land mass otherwise they will simply run out of room.

BMW said:

its all about the scare, not science. Coral reefs actually need rising sea levels or a sinking land mass otherwise they will simply run out of room.

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Having done a lot of diving on various coral reefs, I can assure you that they've still got plenty of room in the ocean to expand!

I've got to wonder about rising sea levels. If this were the case, every country with ocean frontage would have noticed it by now. I'm not denying that ice is melting, but the sea levels don't appear to be uniformly rising. Perhaps those land masses are slowly sinking?

If sea levels have risen by 0.5m, then why isn't the sea lapping the doorsteps of some of those nice houses in Brighton (VIC), and why aren't some of the private jetties in Botany Bay underwater?

And if sea levels do rise by a few metres, it will turn a lot of those Brighton manssions into wonderful dive sites!

Angel said:

Which one is our new carbon tax going to stop, rising sea levels or sinking land masses?

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Sliding plates has been happening since god's great grandfather was a boy, the CT won't alter anything except your wallet thickness, ice has been melting and re-freezing since god's great grandfather's great grandfather was a great grandfather, and land only sinks if point 1 occurs, or erodes, or both.

It really annoys me when you see an alarmist article/feature on the teev/in a mag showing a giant sheaf of ice breaking off and falling into the ocean, whilst they bang on about diminishing ice flows and rising seas and temps etc.

This daily/hourly/minute event has been happening since: (see above re; great grandfather)

If sea levels have risen by 0.5m, then why isn't the sea lapping the doorsteps of some of those nice houses in Brighton (VIC), and why aren't some of the private jetties in Botany Bay underwater?

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I've been diving off Rosebud pier since I was 10, and now do it with my 10 year old, some 40 years later...

I can promise all that the water hasn't risen up the pylons by one mill.

BayView said:

I can promise all that the water hasn't risen up the pylons by one mill.

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Yes it does. Take a photo at low tide, come back at high tide

I have been visiting/living the same low lying coastal area for 55 years and it hasn't changed at all.

In recent years the media has made a fuss every Christmas time when we get the king tides but "oldies" flood the letters to the editor saying stop ignoring historical facts and stop telling lies to scare our grandkids.

Then the Greenies start up and around we go again.

I don't understand why people are so cruel to children.

I seem to have accidentally stumbled into a climate change deniers anonymous, I think I got the wrong room. I'll leave you to it.

Angel said:

Which one is our new carbon tax going to stop, rising sea levels or sinking land masses?

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no, you're missing the point.

the carbon tax will not stop anything - it's purely there to disincentivise sea levels to rise, or in this case, land masses to sink.

Angel said:

we (the Qld government) teach your 14 year olds about the Ring of Fire,

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I wish they taught us Johnny Cash songs when I was in school. Might have made being there slightly less crappy.

One thing I don't get - we go on and on about the sea levels rising due to ice melting, but what about the numerous k's of land that have been "reclaimed" across the middle east, Singapore and Hong Kong? Surely this would have an impact as well.

Whilst every bit counts, and yes the sea ice is melting and adding due to changes in climate, what has been (and will be, with many still reclaiming) the impact of these countries actions?

Mooze said:

One thing I don't get - we go on and on about the sea levels rising due to ice melting, but what about the numerous k's of land that have been "reclaimed" across the middle east, Singapore and Hong Kong? Surely this would have an impact as well.

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The effect would be a trillion times smaller than the current rises due to melting and thermal expansion.

Mooze said:

One thing I don't get - we go on and on about the sea levels rising due to ice melting, but what about the numerous k's of land that have been "reclaimed" across the middle east, Singapore and Hong Kong? Surely this would have an impact as well.

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Considering that the Earth's surface is approx 4/5 water - and this doesn't take into account how much actual volume of water due to the depths as well - any reclaimed land by us would be equivalent to getting a 20lt bucket of water - make it 205lt drum - and dropping one grain of sand in it to make the water rise.

Both are happening.

Scotland is rising and England is sinking, albeit at no more than a millimetre per year. The cause is that the crust was pushed down by ice sheets during the Ice Age, and the land is settling back.



The sea level is rising by around 3 mm a year. There are satellite measurements showing this.

That graph looks pretty scary... but I wonder what it would look like for the last 5-6,000 years? Or further?

That is a very small scale in the history of the earth.

wobbycarly said:

That graph looks pretty scary... but I wonder what it would look like for the last 5-6,000 years? Or further?

That is a very small scale in the history of the earth.

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in context, 3mm per year isn't to bad.

I like the SEAFRAME project run by the BOM for accurate data. They have been in place 23 years now and show nothing scary. Ever heard the BOM brief the ABC about this? I haven't.

They have kindly installed measuring stations on the threatened islands too, same result. There is zero credible evidence that any of these islands will be swamped any time soon. Underground water is being pumped and as the soil dries it shrinks, as evidenced in New Orleans which has been sinking since they started building levees, but this is a separate matter.

wobbycarly said:

That graph looks pretty scary... but I wonder what it would look like for the last 5-6,000 years? Or further?

That is a very small scale in the history of the earth.

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Well if you're going to quote time periods back when the earth wasn't fit for large scale human habitation, go right ahead! Provided you don't want us to return to that point of course... the fact the earth has been there before doesn't mean it would be at all desirable to go there again!

Personally, I'm more worried about this... but I'm sure someone will be along to tell me there is absolutely nothing to worry about and they're willing to take the risk on my children's behalf just so long as they can keep shovelling the coal into those boilers...

HiEquity said:

Well if you're going to quote time periods back when the earth wasn't fit for large scale human habitation, go right ahead! Provided you don't want us to return to that point of course... the fact the earth has been there before doesn't mean it would be at all desirable to go there again!

Personally, I'm more worried about this... but I'm sure someone will be along to tell me there is absolutely nothing to worry about and they're willing to take the risk on my children's behalf just so long as they can keep shovelling the coal into those boilers...

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if all that ice has melted yet sea levels haven't risen, something doesn't add up?

funny how you don't hear much about the Antarctic on the ABC.

Also melting sea ice makes bugger all difference to sea levels. it's more the glaciers that people tend to jump up and down about.

Ausprop said:

if all that ice has melted yet sea levels haven't risen, something doesn't add up?

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It's sea ice - in other words already floating on water - when the ice melts the level remains the same.

I'm baffled why the focus is always on sea levels, as if that is the only important factor in the earth's climate...? Or that we shouldn't be worried about rapid loss of Arctic sea ice and consequent risks to the Gulf Stream because the ice isn't melting as fast elsewhere?

Isn't it enough that we are causing very rapid modifications (on a geological timeframe) to the Earth's climate from a position where the Earth is actually a place where we can live? Obviously not... for all those who are happy to guarantee to the rest of us (and our children) that there is nothing to worry about - after all they are experts at this stuff now thanks to google! Pretty much every reputable science institution on the planet has got nothing on their level of climate expertise - they've "looked into it and found it's all a con"!

So everyone else can go jump because there's no way I'm paying a cent more for my power than I have too and I'm a legend in my own lunchbox so I know far more than those toffs!

Just like the smoking / alcohol is bad for you message is some left wing conspiracy compromising our liberty but there's no way we should legalise marijuana - that stuff's pure evil!

Give me a break....