Landlord Insurance - Won't Cover My Leaking Bathroom Problem

Hullo.
My property is tenanted and the shower has sprung a leak (please see the whole other post for details)
Well. I have landlord insurance with AAMI, insuring my contents for 100k, thinking it would cover the fitout (toilet bowl, vanity, kitchen cupboards, blinds, floating floors....) in the event of a disaster.
Well. Such items are not considered 'contents' (with the possible exception of the floorboards) and not covered apparently. AAMI told me to ask the strata if their insurance would cover it.
In the event I need to put my tenants up at a hotel or reduce their rent for the period of the repairs, I am also not covered.
I feel I paid about $800-$900 for this insurance for nothing more than what I would have got from Terri Scheer for about $400. TS would only cover me to $60k, but that will cover everything that's 'contents' anyway. TS doesn't cover toilet bowl, kitchen cupboards etc either.
If TS won't pay either, at least I would have paid less for the insurance.
Does anyone have any recommendations? If not, when the saga of my bathroom is over, I will just change to TS.
I will also shop around for mortgagee protection insurance.
Thanks.

To my knowlege, a lot of basic landlord insurance policies only cover damage by the tenant, or rent default. I believe this is the case with Terri Scheer (although i don't know whether you can get building or contents components with their policy). This is not a be-all and end-all. You need to make sure the building, and if you like, contents are covered under the same policy or a separate policy.

AAMI is correct in saying that things like toilet, vanity, kitchen etc. are not contents. They are fixed to the house, thus being part of the building. I would think that this sort of thing should be covered by your building insurance.
Do you have building cover with your AAMI policy? I have landlord insurance with AAMI for one of my properties, and that includes building insurance. I think AAMI is one of the few that offer combined landlord and building insurance under the one policy. For the fee you say you're paying, it sounds like you do. If not, then, without knowing a lot about strata title, the strata may stump up through their insurance.

Is the leaking shower due to damage by the tenant, perhaps a faulty job by a tradie or something else? These are questions that should also come into play when you decide what to do and who to call. And, you may find that the cost of paying an excess is not much more than the cost of getting the leak fixed anyway.

I would definitely check your policy docs to see whether the building is covered.

missgreeneyes said:

Hullo.
My property is tenanted and the shower has sprung a leak (please see the whole other post for details)... In the event I need to put my tenants up at a hotel or reduce their rent for the period of the repairs, I am also not covered.

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The NSW rental tenancy act allows for an agreement to be terminated if the building becomes inhabitable... I'd appreciate opinions as to whether my interpretation of this is correct: that is, if the bathroom floods the place and the property becomes uninhabitable, the tenancy can be terminated -- rather than the landlord having to put the tenants up at a hotel.

109 Agreement frustrated—destruction of, or uninhabitable, premises
(1) This section applies if residential premises under a residential tenancy agreement are, otherwise than as a result of a breach of an agreement, destroyed or become wholly or partly uninhabitable or cease to be lawfully usable as a residence or are appropriated or acquired by any authority by compulsory process.
(2) The landlord or the tenant may give the other party a termination notice.
(3) The termination notice may end the residential tenancy agreement on the date that the notice is given.
(4) The termination notice may specify a termination date that is before the end of the fixed term of the residential tenancy agreement if it is a fixed term agreement.
(5) The Tribunal may, on application by a landlord or tenant, make a termination order if it is satisfied that a termination notice was given in accordance with this section and that this section applies to the residential premises.

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Hi DaveR.
Landlord insurance with AAMI. Building insurance with CHU (i have no say in this matter - strata decision).
I will call CHU to ask if they will cover me. Because my strata manager gets angry when he has to do too much (really).
I pay so much because I over-insured (thinking it would cover the toilet bowl etc) and because AAMI is just more expensive than TS. Their overheads are higher (24-hr call centre) and advertising (lucckkeeee you're with AAAMMMEEEE)
Just reading the CHU PDS online. They cover accidental damage to lot improvments. So, if I renovate the kitchen and the tenant hacks it up in a drunken fit, the landlord's insurance won't cover me (because it's fixtures) and the strata insurance won't cover me (because it's not accidental)? so no one will cover me?

missgreeneyes said:

Hi DaveR.
Landlord insurance with AAMI. Building insurance with CHU (i have no say in this matter - strata decision).
I will call CHU to ask if they will cover me. Because my strata manager gets angry when he has to do too much (really).
I pay so much because I over-insured (thinking it would cover the toilet bowl etc) and because AAMI is just more expensive than TS. Their overheads are higher (24-hr call centre) and advertising (lucckkeeee you're with AAAMMMEEEE)
Just reading the CHU PDS online. They cover accidental damage to lot improvments. So, if I renovate the kitchen and the tenant hacks it up in a drunken fit, the landlord's insurance won't cover me (because it's fixtures) and the strata insurance won't cover me (because it's not accidental)? so no one will cover me?

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A leaky bathroom is definitely a building insurance issue.
If you strata manager is slack, sack him - get another one who is happy to help you. You are the ones paying him!! You are employing an underperforming employee!!

If a tenant hacks your, try claiming both. We've had a tenant set fire (accidentally) to a kitchen in one of our apartments- the fire brigade call out, paint etc was covered by the building insurance thru body corp. A new oven came from our landlord insurance.

The Y-man

Hi Y-man
Just wondering if you've invested in apartments before? In case you haven't, apartment-owners have their hands bound by this nuisance strata issue.

I have tried to get a new strata manager. It's only a little block of 5. 1 owner-occupier is is not my friend. Another 1 (apartment tenanted) stands in the middle ground. Indifferent, perhaps you could call him. He does turn up to meetings from time to time. The other 2 (1 owner-occupier, 1 tenanted) are not interested in partaking in strata issues as I've never met them at meetings. I have the contact details for Mr. Indifferent but he didn't reply to my email. Mr OO-disinterested is....disinterested and I don't have the contact details for Ms. landlord-disinterested.
Because it's such a small block, I would need support from just 1 other owner to change the strata manager. The strata manager is not really 'bad'. He is experienced, and does get on to things, but he doesn't want to do too much running around. To a degree, I am also not keen to rock the boat (change strata manager = out of the frying pan into the fire???).
I am looking to purchase a house next as I feel restrained. I have alot of trouble getting plain essential (leaks, breaks) maintenance work approved. let's not even start on cosmetic repairs (painting, gardening, preventative maintenance).

At the risk of sounding snobby, would anyone say buying in more expensive apartments (eg 650k-under 1 mil apartments in the sydney easter suburbs) may give less of these headaches, as the owners tend to want to maintain their properties to a high standard? This is my layman's observation. People I know who live/own such expensive apartments always seem to maintain their properties well.
Since I can't afford such apartments at this stage, I will start looking towards houses.

Back to insurance. CHU emphasises repeatedly in their PDS that they only cover accidental. I'll call them and ask about malicious damage. I haven't found any landlords insurance that will cover damage to fixtures. I'll look into mortagee protection and see if that will close the gap for me.
If I find anything I'll post here. It seems alot of landlords have problems with malicious tenants, judging by the posts on somersoft.

I screen tenants meticulously but....you never know....isn't that what insurance is supposed to be for? Until you find out you're not covered...

PS Y-man - you mean the strata insurance company is supposed to pay for leaking shower recesses and leaking walls?
We paid it out of our admin fund last year to repair the shower base. about $900-$1000.
I wonder if we can claim this time.

missgreeneyes said:

Hi Y-man
Just wondering if you've invested in apartments before? In case you haven't, apartment-owners have their hands bound by this nuisance strata issue.

...

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Hi Missgreeneyes,

We have owned a range of apartments from 1BR to 2BR ranging in age from 40 years to OTP, in blocks of 8 to as many as one (our OTP) in a block of 250 (you should see the Body Corp meeting on those ones!)

In fact, a very small majority of our IP's have been townhouses and only 1 has been a house.

Cheers,

The Y-man

missgreeneyes said:

At the risk of sounding snobby, would anyone say buying in more expensive apartments (eg 650k-under 1 mil apartments in the sydney easter suburbs) may give less of these headaches, as the owners tend to want to maintain their properties to a high standard? This is my layman's observation. People I know who live/own such expensive apartments always seem to maintain their properties well.
Since I can't afford such apartments at this stage, I will start looking towards houses.
...

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The most expensive apartment we owned (OTP one) had the most issues in terms of other owners and tenants - most amount of damage and theft (might be because of the size). It was one of those nice boutique highrise apartments in Southbank (Melb)

Having said that, the only significant malicious damage we've had in 12 + years was in the only house in the IP mix

The Y-man

missgreeneyes said:

Back to insurance. CHU emphasises repeatedly in their PDS that they only cover accidental. I'll call them and ask about malicious damage. I haven't found any landlords insurance that will cover damage to fixtures. I'll look into mortagee protection and see if that will close the gap for me.
If I find anything I'll post here. It seems alot of landlords have problems with malicious tenants, judging by the posts on somersoft.
..

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I must say I have never had malicious damage in our apartments. (We have had malicious tenants in the same block mind you - and yes they were a pain to get rid of.... no idea what happened in terms of any damage they did to building...)

The Y-man

missgreeneyes said:

PS Y-man - you mean the strata insurance company is supposed to pay for leaking shower recesses and leaking walls?
We paid it out of our admin fund last year to repair the shower base. about $900-$1000.
I wonder if we can claim this time.

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Leaking shower recesses is an interesting one - we had it happen at my mum's PPOR - called house insurance and presto! No cover...... Cover only if the pipe is leaking apparently. I assume the common building insurer would be the same unfortunately....

The Y-man

I generally look to use the same insurer as the firm providing the strata insurance. That way the two companies can't simply palm a problem off to the other one.

The Y-man said:

Leaking shower recesses is an interesting one - we had it happen at my mum's PPOR - called house insurance and presto! No cover...... Cover only if the pipe is leaking apparently. I assume the common building insurer would be the same unfortunately....

The Y-man

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Issues covered by the strata are restricted to the shower tray and only up to the first row of tiles from the bottom and as you mention high pressure water pipe leaks.

A leak in the stack (which is rare) could also be covered.

Most of the other fittings etc could or would be replaced by the owner in remodeling etc and we don't cover.

Basically we try not to cover anythings that the insurance doesn't cover because even high pressure pipes can be replaced if the owner has done an extensive reno.

The whole situation can get very difficult as there could be a leak because of grout erosion and then a leaky washer which means the water is constantly running. Tenant then puts shower rose up against the wall to avoid hearing the constant drip unit below has a massive leak but leak not covered by the strata.

This is currently happening to a unit in one of the strata's I am involved. Biggest problem is strata has no power to enforce a repair at the owners expense.

Cheers

HandyAndy:
Who do you mean by 'we'?
I go with the landlord insurance I think is best. Which I thought was AAMI. Mistakenly, of course.
CHU is underwritten by QBE. Bad reviews on QBE.
I'll look into TS when this sage is over.

The Y-man said:

Leaking shower recesses is an interesting one - we had it happen at my mum's PPOR - called house insurance and presto! No cover...... Cover only if the pipe is leaking apparently. I assume the common building insurer would be the same unfortunately....

The Y-man

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I've never owned a house.
You mean the insurance screws people over for house insurance as well?
Switching to owning houses doesn't solve any problems in that regard then.
At least I can maintain my house to the standard I want. Budget permitting.

The Y-man said:

Hi Missgreeneyes,

....block of 250 (you should see the Body Corp meeting on those ones!)

Cheers,

The Y-man

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Precisely why I have been put off apartments. I'd hate to imagine the strata meetings on those big blocks. You know, the ones that are 10-20+ storeys high, with the lifts...
Burnt off completely.
I have enough being yelled at now.

handyandy said:

This is currently happening to a unit in one of the strata's I am involved. Biggest problem is strata has no power to enforce a repair at the owners expense.

Cheers

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So what happens? Do you just wait for the building to collapse? And then....?

The Y-man said:

The most expensive apartment we owned (OTP one) had the most issues in terms of other owners and tenants - most amount of damage and theft (might be because of the size). It was one of those nice boutique highrise apartments in Southbank (Melb)

Having said that, the only significant malicious damage we've had in 12 + years was in the only house in the IP mix

The Y-man

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Mmmm I was thinking in terms of general repairs. People I know who own in more expensive buildings can kick back and let the other owners take care of the strata. They know the other owners will fix leaks, paint the walls, take care of the garden, update the carpet... they don't seem to have much issues with money as all the owners ensure they manage the funds well.
I don't know about damage/theft.

missgreeneyes said:

HandyAndy:
Who do you mean by 'we'?
I go with the landlord insurance I think is best. Which I thought was AAMI. Mistakenly, of course.
CHU is underwritten by QBE. Bad reviews on QBE.
I'll look into TS when this sage is over.

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By 'we' I mean the executive committee of the strata.

The only people who generally care and actually get involved.

Cheers

handyandy said:

By 'we' I mean the executive committee of the strata.

The only people who generally care and actually get involved.

Cheers

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I'm exec too. I am one of 3 people who actually attends meetings.

HandyAndy - I tried to PM you but your inbox is full and my message was rejected.
Thank you very much for your replies in regards to the leaking shower. It's given me alot of information.
You could say I regret having the shower base done now...there probably wasn't anything wrong with it and the reno may have caused the problems with the wall now? The reverberations or the plumber not putting the taps back properly perhaps??
If you would have some time to answer some queries I posted in that thread, I would greatly appreciate it too.
Plumber booked for Wednesday. Would you have a plumber you could recommend for the west please?
Just out of curiosity - are you a tradie? I'm not. I'm just useless at these DIY things.
Thank you.