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Old 08-08-2009, 06:34 PM
Sheryn Sheryn is offline
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Estimation using rule of thumb %'s

I read on another thread that a kitchen as a rule of thumb should be 3% or overall cost. [I can't locate the thread but I am reasonably sure ARMS was the poster].

What I am wondering is what percentages should be allowed for other parts of the building?

Frame & Trusses
Roof
Plumbing
Bathroom
Ensuite
Laundry
Electrical
Roof tiles
Floor Tiles
Painting
Garage
Driveway
etc

This may be too simple but it struck me as a good way to estimate/manage a build as opposed to square metres


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Old 09-08-2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheryn View Post
I read on another thread that a kitchen as a rule of thumb should be 3% or overall cost. [I can't locate the thread but I am reasonably sure ARMS was the poster].

What I am wondering is what percentages should be allowed for other parts of the building?

Frame & Trusses
Roof
Plumbing
Bathroom
Ensuite
Laundry
Electrical
Roof tiles
Floor Tiles
Painting
Garage
Driveway
etc

This may be too simple but it struck me as a good way to estimate/manage a build as opposed to square metres


Regards
Sheryn
Partner and I spoke about this thread and came to the conclusion that working on a % is too hard even impossible.
Too many variables. E.g in regards to the roof trusses things such as hip end, gable end, ins and outs etc. Hip ends and ins and outs are dearer as more trusses are used.
Partner is about to start a build on a townhouse where the townhouse it self is not big however the fact that the second story is off set from the first, the flooring drops down in certain sections). For the owner an estimate of cost per square would be inaccurate also to some sence as generally 16 sq homes don't have 9 bits of steel as part of the engineering.

You can certainly do things at design level that can minimise costs or at least help to I.e keep plumbing at one end of the house etc.
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Old 09-08-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minx View Post
Partner and I spoke about this thread and came to the conclusion that working on a % is too hard even impossible.
Too many variables. E.g in regards to the roof trusses things such as hip end, gable end, ins and outs etc. Hip ends and ins and outs are dearer as more trusses are used.
Partner is about to start a build on a townhouse where the townhouse it self is not big however the fact that the second story is off set from the first, the flooring drops down in certain sections). For the owner an estimate of cost per square would be inaccurate also to some sence as generally 16 sq homes don't have 9 bits of steel as part of the engineering.

You can certainly do things at design level that can minimise costs or at least help to I.e keep plumbing at one end of the house etc.
while what you are saying is correct generally,the more elaborate a house design is then the value of the house will go up accordingly ,
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Minx View Post
Too many variables.
Agree - but how about if I/we keep it simple. For example the roof would be the cheapest one you can do which is a hip roof.

We have a gable in our current project so it will be slightly dearer.

At least I have a starting point for Rule of Thumb %'s

1. Kitchen 3 %
We haven't asked for kitchen quotes yet but when I do, I will ask for one without overhead cupboards and one with the overhead cupboards.

2. Roof quotes are between $11,100 - $12,100 for plain roof tiles (edge protection extra, hubby can work out square metres. At a guess roof comes in at 6%.

3. Windows 3% at a guess and with maybe 4% with security screens.


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Sheryn
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Old 09-08-2009, 02:41 PM
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You might want to speak with a Quantity Surveyor, their job is to estimate and monitor construction costs. You may find it worthwhile to engage one on your project, or at least get some useful estimating guidelines.
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Old 09-08-2009, 05:13 PM
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Go to the library and look up Rawlinson's construction guide. This will give you the going rate on just about every construction costing you could think of. Quantity Surveyors use it too! Be sure to use the latest edition to ensure accuracy.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheryn View Post
Agree - but how about if I/we keep it simple. For example the roof would be the cheapest one you can do which is a hip roof.

We have a gable in our current project so it will be slightly dearer.

At least I have a starting point for Rule of Thumb %'s

1. Kitchen 3 %
We haven't asked for kitchen quotes yet but when I do, I will ask for one without overhead cupboards and one with the overhead cupboards.

2. Roof quotes are between $11,100 - $12,100 for plain roof tiles (edge protection extra, hubby can work out square metres. At a guess roof comes in at 6%.

3. Windows 3% at a guess and with maybe 4% with security screens.


Cheers
Sheryn


Its easy to do if you build using similar size, style and finishes all the time.

Chomp
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:12 PM
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Its easy to do if you build using similar size, style and finishes all the time.

Chomp
Chomp do you have an rough %'s that you could share. Basically I am looking at plain 3 bedroom duplex unit/house 2 garages and bathroom + ensuite?

How much does a small ensuite cost with basic fittings?

Of course I could buy a book and work it out in great detail - but that is not for me. A guesstimate is good enough for what I do.

Sheryn
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:42 PM
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Sheryn I find that building houses are cheaper than units/subdivision by a touch.

In my experience with sub div you want to put as many dwellings as you can. As such, in order to comply I have found on plans that these dwellings have the second story off set from the first in order to comply with council requirements re boundry.

Just with building my PPOR I found that frame and labour along with bricks and labour as the most expensive.
Electrical would follow that and that's because I have downlights throughout.
my fix was prob cheapest but that is because my other half did it.

The type of material used would also impact the cost of construction.

I will use my house (PPOR) as an example for the cost that I know off the top of my head. The house is 55 sq.

Austral elements in blue onyx for bricks. Quoted at over $1000 per thou I believe I paid a couple hundred less through partner. I needed 30k bricks.
Structual steel was 15k.
Roof tiles - completley flat terracotta tile almost 25k
Material for subfloor and frame for stick build 16k
Windows inc 2 bifolds (around 20 windows) 25k they were aluminium.
Kitchen - main with black galaxy granite and island, entertainers kitchen no island, 3 bathrooms, 2 powder rooms and laundry all with 2pac at 27k.
Jarrah floorboards - material 15k
Stainess steel ballustrade inside and to front of house and glass ballustrade on x2 balconies 25k.
I have ilve oven and canopy 8k.

I have 2400 doors throughout, high ceilings throughout with 3.2m in entry.
I have 140mm skirts unsure of archs.
Again all my material was top end, design was not cost effective as I have angled walls etc.

I bet I could of built it much cheaper though by using different and cheaper material. E.g I used the posi strut floor joist system on both floors. There are cheaper posis out there.

Also edited to say that I have come across buildrrs who are tight and use the bare minimum and there are others who want double studs everywhere, arnt shy with tripple studs and braceboard. Yes they use more material which costs but they prefer to over engineer than have problems later.
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Old 22-11-2009, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Minx View Post
I found that frame and labour along with bricks and labour as the most expensive.

Electrical would follow that and that's because I have downlights throughout.
my fix was prob cheapest but that is because my other half did it.
Thanks Minx

I will work out frame & labour costs and bricks and labour costs when we actually start as all quotes are out of date now (we expected to start in August)

Brickies locally are charging $1700/thousand and some want to charge extra for sills etc.

Hubby twin brother's gang will be the frame & trusses subcontractors so we should get a good deal. Hubby is helping a little on nephew's house at present.


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Sheryn
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Old 22-11-2009, 01:23 PM
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Sheryn, I have done some calcs on kit home price breakdowns. We are about to lodge plans to construct a 2 bed home at Ocean Shores which I will be hands on and project managing.

These prices are supply only - no labour. Garage will be under and not included in these figures.

Floor System - treated pine bearer and joists. Chipboard floor, Adhesive, Hardwood decking for standard deck. - 15%

Lock up - Construction manual, engineered plans, truss certificate, Basix cert, Treated pine trusses and frames prefab, Angle and ply bracing, tie downs, nails, colourbond roof & screws, gutter facia, barges, ridge and downpipes, foil blanket insulation, sisalation, Eave linings, hardiplank weatherboards, Alumin windows, screens, R2.0 wall batts, Verandah posts and beams, external doors. - 50%

Lining/internal - Gyprock & fixings, base & top coat, internal doors + handles, shelving, villaboard, cornice, archs and skirts. - 15%

Final fit out - bath and tap sets, vanity, sink and flick mixer, oven and cooktop, rangehood, toilet, laundry tub, kitchen, hot water system. - 20%

Not supplied - labour, paint or floor coverings, wet area sealants/tiles, footing designs, soil tests, electrical, plumbing, delivery, shower screens.

Hope that helps. Might have more info on all the other costs once we finish the build.

edit: I am estimating that the cost of the kit will be around 50% of the final cost. Kit price in this case will be around 40k and final cost around 80 - 100k. We are building on a slope which increases the cost compared to on level land.
Might begin another thread to show progress.
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Old 22-11-2009, 02:10 PM
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I am estimating that the cost of the kit will be around 50% of the final cost. Kit price in this case will be around 40k and final cost around 80 - 100k. We are building on a slope which increases the cost compared to on level land.

Might begin another thread to show progress.
Good info, I didn't know you were doing a kit home obviously not the duplex.

Will have to catch up and see the kit home.


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Sheryn
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Old 22-11-2009, 02:15 PM
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Might begin another thread to show progress.
Please do
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Old 22-11-2009, 02:53 PM
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Good info, I didn't know you were doing a kit home obviously not the duplex.
It is the duplex Sheryn. I have been forced to replan after exhausting my finance options for the larger houses. I will be building one kit home at a time. The first one will be paid for out of my current LOC. Then I will strata subdivide and either sell or let/refinance to build the second.

The figures are looking good at this stage with a much smaller outlay in costs yet comparable profits.
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Old 22-11-2009, 04:14 PM
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guys i am a lic builder and i don't know how you could even consider doing it this way, first step would be to get the overall value, of what ever you have in mind then you could break the job down , but the amt of variables , sheesh!

say for eg the cornice , 55mm 90mm, square set, three step or four, ornate or classic ,
and then the kitchen , laminate tops, stone , stone composite, marble, 25mm 35mm, corrian, full covered 60mm ????> the list goes on , and thats just the tops, handles , $10 piece , $50 a piece, impossible!

But more importantly , why would you want to do this ???????
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Old 23-11-2009, 07:45 AM
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guys i am a lic builder and i don't know how you could even consider doing it this way, first step would be to get the overall value, of what ever you have in mind then you could break the job down , but the amt of variables , sheesh!

I have the overall value & concept in my head

say for eg the cornice , 55mm 90mm, square set, three step or four, ornate or classic ,
and then the kitchen , laminate tops, stone , stone composite, marble, 25mm 35mm, corrian, full covered 60mm ????> the list goes on , and thats just the tops, handles , $10 piece , $50 a piece, impossible!

Yes lots of variables and in most instances I will go for basic except kitchen and bathroom

But more importantly , why would you want to do this ??????

To be in control.
To make money
To create something from scratch so less maintenance issues.
Because we think we can do this.
So the subcontractors only have to talk to us and we can ask questions and obtain more information and make informed decisions without the builder deciding himself what he wants us to do.
Hubby and I have obtained quotes for major things eg roof & trusses, windows, steel, plasterer (although out of date since CC has not come out of Council yet).

Craig
Rockstar and I have built before so we have gained experiences (good and bad) nothing is perfect.

I have a figure for the project sitting in my head and will allow 10% extra.

What I want to achieve out of this thread is a estimation using rule of thumb % for costs.

For example
Some may say spend 10% of build cost on landscaping, I would budget about 1.5%.
Some say use an architect to manage project and architect would probably charge 10% of build cost, I would do with out architect and save 10%.

Of course I am not going to lay bricks but I will use a brick costing $800 per thousand or less not $1800 per thousand and I would use a bricklayer who charged me ?? x number of bricks.

Just imagine if nobody set sail, or went exploring, or were prepared to learn new skills or to have a go.

It will give hubby and I something to argue (debate) about.


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Sheryn
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Old 24-11-2009, 02:56 PM
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I am not bagging new ideas , but the method is pointless, lets say you have a figure in your head , call the figuresay 200k and thats what your intention is to spend, you know already the trusses are 16k and the frames are 12k then to assemble and place would cost 4k thats $32,000 there fore its 16% of the project, then the bricks cost 10k and the sand is 1k and cement and lime is 3k, brick laying at $1200 per 1000 being 5k or so , $19,000 = 9.5%

the kitchen being so basic at 11k installed, would be $5.5% cornice supplied and placed costs $3,000 so it equates to 1.5%
concrete slab and footings being $19,000 woiuld also equate, to 9.5% so the percentages make no differances is making or saving money, what you need to make/save money is find both products and trades people that buy cheaper and place for cheaper, say for eg, you might find a truss company that will supply cheaper, and be able to use there recomended labor , to place, or a flat pack bunnings kitchen that looks ok to you , the actual $$ come down which becomes the product of % any way,


what you need to do is get prices on laying bricks , buying sand, just doing the job, the % are irrelevent because it will always become a percentage of what ever you spend,
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