Angry RHG customers

Found this website while looking up RHG's phone number

http://au.messages.yahoo.com/finance/home_loans/1819?p=1

People sounding angry and it sounds like there is going to be a today tonight story in it as well

the person to talk to at Today Tonight is Georgia Main her email is [email protected], 96977825,0488278720, make contact with her as I already have to dicuss this matter ( the more people that do so the better we will be.


I need to clear up some misinformation and throw some light on why RHG treat us like CR*P and why they WILL continue to do so.
1. RHG sold the RAMS Brand Name & Franchise Channel to Westpac in 07 as a bail out from going into administration as a consequence of sub-prime meltdown from the USA.
2. RHG then withdrew it's membership from the Credit Ombudsman Service Limited (reducing avenues of complaint)-See Submission 33 of the Consumer Credit Legal Centre NSW to the House of Reps Standing Committee on Economics for a DAMNING review of RAMS/RHG lending practices.
3. RHG immediately starting escalating interest rates beyond RBA increases (and has consistently failed to deliver RBA reductions at full value also)
4. RHG has increased exit processing fees in a 12 month period from $195-$250-$695.

HERE'S WHY RHG WON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

When you signed up to RAMS, you signed up to a company that was seeking new customers in a competitive market place- competition = attention to customer service. (albeit far from perfect as my experience with RAMS dictated!) BUT with RHG their business model is to manage their 'loan book' of existing customers- NOT attract new ones = no competition = no drive for customer service. Don't believe me? look at their website and tell me how to sign for a new loan not just change a current one! RHG can barely fund the customers it currently has and is increasingly looking for means to extract more $ from us until THEY SELL US to the next mortgage provider..like business collatoral. Watch it happen (because it will)
RHG has ZERO marketing collatoral in it's name.. ever seen it advertised anywhere? NO, because it's current guise is as a short term exit strategy until the board ratify selling off the rest (and us with it). RAMS will 'rightly' claim they have nothing to do with RHG if we were to try and drag them into the media spotlight with RHG. It's disgusting,its unconscionable..and as far as I can opine, not illegal
 
No - I’m speaking of a large investment bank.

Things changed pretty quickly for a lot of lenders earlier this year and I do wonder what it would take for some of these organizations to get back into the lending game again?
 
Just goes to show (the quote manderson refers to) how people with no knowledge of the situation, and no care to find out the facts, can behave rather badly and say some quite ridiculous and silly things for no purpose at all

It was always thus

Kristine
 
Just goes to show (the quote manderson refers to) how people with no knowledge of the situation, and no care to find out the facts, can behave rather badly and say some quite ridiculous and silly things for no purpose at all

It was always thus

Kristine

I had a RAM's loan and when the sale was going through to RHG, received a letter from RAMS saying not to worry as nothing would change, just a different name.

This is clearly not the case when you compare fees and interest rates of Rams Vs RHG.

Rams conditions and pricing stayed pretty much the same, RHG have gouged and gouged hard at every opportunity, my current rate is still around 10.37% compared to Rams at 8.39% ??.

I am currently in the process of paying out my RHG loan and going to a sensible lender, who hopefully wont sell my loan off again.

I wasn't confident to take Rams up on their offer to return to them as they had thrown me to the dogs once before, and there is no guarantee they wont do it again.
 
Hello manderson

Well, despite you deciding to refinance, RHG have passed on 0.25% reduction at the beginning of October, and 0.75% as of today, 20th October.

http://www.rhgl.com.au/files/Fees and Interest Rates/20081020_RHG_CRS Variable.pdf

To the best of my knowledge - and I have two RHG loans, my son has one and my daughter has two - all usual fees and charges have not changed, only the Early Termination Fee and that depends on your loan product. Some have no exit fees at all, others work on a percentage of the original loan amount, and others on the previous month's balance. The early termination fees are not uniform across the 50+ loan products which RHG continues to service.

If you check the website www.rhgl.com.au you will see that RAMS did not sell to RHG (as per your post). RAMS sold the brand name and the franchising arm to Westpac. In return for this, Westpac provided funds (at commercial rates) to RAMS to continue to be able to meet it's obligations and to settle loans from November, 2007 onwards when the NAB warehousing facility would have been fully committed.

Between November, 2007 and February, 2008 RHG (as the business holding the book was then called - after all, you can't have two companies trading with the same name) refinanced the whole 6.1 billion in commercial notes which were due for rollover.

There was never any likelihood of RAMS being put into administration.

Westpac took over on 4th January, 2008 and has offered various incentives to RHG customers to refinance to RAMS. I have quite a number of RHG customers and to the best of my knowledge, fewer than three have refinanced away from RHG. In fact, I have written increases for quite a number of the existing customers including a fairly significant low doc townhouse development in Adelaide, and converted other customers to cheaper RHG products.

In most cases, the RHG customers have weathered the storm with good grace and loyalty, and are now being rewarded with a full 1% reduction in interest rates.

Whoever it was you were quoting from the other website, clearly has no understanding of the commercial history of the brand. RHG is not able to write loans for a period of three years due to the sale agreement with Westpac. This means no new loans at all, but this week I wrote a variation / increase for a customer of mine for $500,000 at a fully discounted rate and he has been an RHG customer for more than ten years and has no inclination to refinance to any other lender. RHG (RAMS) was the only lender prepared to lend him money ten years ago and he has honoured that and is a very loyal customer.


So there is no point in RHG advertising as it cannot write new loans, but if you talk to your broker you will find that RHG is just as approachable as ever.

By the way, by the sound of it you have a non-insured Low Doc loan. This means that your broker would have explained to you the difference between a Self Employed Pro Pack which is a discounted loan with insurance payable above 60%LVR, and the Low Doc loan which has a non-discounted rate but obviously lower establishment costs.

Usually, if a customer chose the Low Doc it was because they wanted to get into the deal with minimal cost, and wanted up to 85%LVR

After a couple of years, most customers would consider switching the loan product to the SE Pro Pack - by then, the LVR may have dropped which would mean less mortgage insurance to pay. The SE Pro Pack was originally for 80% plus LMI but then the product increased to 90%LVR including LMI, so it depends on when you took out your loan, and the discussions you had with your broker, as to which loan product would have been more appropriate for you.

So have you discussed switching the loan product with your broker? Why not at least have the conversation before you incur early repayment fees and perhaps hefty establishment fees for the new loan?

Getting angry never does any of us any good. A calm assessment of the situation can often produce excellent results. No General would rush into battle without a battle plan. Your dollars are your soldiers. Why sacrifice them on the battle field of imaginery insult and idle gossip? Find out the facts first, consider adequately and then act if you then genuinely will benefit from the change.

Remember, loans are a commodity just as wheat, coffee, sugar is. Whichever lender you are with can sell part or all of their loan book just as your local property manager can sell their rent roll. The Bank of Adelaide was recently taken over by the Bank of Bendigo. The Commonwealth Bank took over the State Savings Bank. Take overs and mergers happen every day. Why take it as a personal insult?

I hope you can find the appropriate solution for you.

Hope this helps
Kristine
 
Long post defending them Kristine, you wouldn't be a broker selling their product by any chance?

RHG have passed on 0.25% reduction at the beginning of October, and 0.75% as of today, 20th October.
Whoopee, they have reduced their rate to at least a full % point if not more above everyone else, thats nice.
Remember, loans are a commodity just as wheat, coffee, sugar is. Whichever lender you are with can sell part or all of their loan book just as your local property manager can sell their rent roll

I understand that and dont have a problem with it, just don't send a BS letter saying everything will be the same, its just a name change. That was just a blatant lie

Take overs and mergers happen every day. Why take it as a personal insult?

Because I don't like being bent over and lied to


By the way, by the sound of it you have a non-insured Low Doc loan. This means that your broker would have explained to you the difference between a Self Employed Pro Pack which is a discounted loan with insurance payable above 60%LVR, and the Low Doc loan which has a non-discounted rate but obviously lower establishment costs.

Usually, if a customer chose the Low Doc it was because they wanted to get into the deal with minimal cost, and wanted up to 85%LVR

Guessed wrong. The loan I have is a NO Doc loan, and I put in about 30% for a 70% lend.

I have not refinanced, I have just repaid, and the plan always was when we did this with RAMS, to give a paid off property as security for the final $2K balance so as not to pay the $7000 break fee for having a loan under 7 years.

Rams are still ok with this, RHG are not and refuse a transfer of security.

The final $7000 gouge from a pack of gougers, but it will be worth it to me to be rid of them.
 
Hello manderson

I have just rung RHG 1300 658 489 and spoken with Scenarios

Substitution of Security is still 'On The Menu' and is a simple and straightforward procedure

RHG Fee Summary is at http://www.rhgl.com.au/default.asp?page=/our+home+loans/interest+rates+\+fees and you can download the Request to Vary Your Existing Loan forms from the website as well.

The CSO who attended to my call assured me that a balance of $2,000 on a Low Doc (No Declared Income) loan can certainly be transferred to another security with 'no trouble at all'


Substition of Security should cost you $295 plus Third Party Costs. A far cry from $7,000 and certainly not 'gouging'.

If you need any help with the Application I am happy to help. I don't earn a fee for doing this - call it Customer Service: I have always found RHG to be great people to deal with and there has been no change with that.

Hope this helps
Kristine
 
Thanks for the offer Kristine.:)

The $7k I mentioned was for getting out of the no doc loan before the 7 years was up, not for transfer of security. I always new this and do not have an issue with it.

The fees to transfer security I also knew about and I dont have an issue with them either.

I have filled out the forms to do the transfer of security and they have called saying they wont do it as the title of the other property is in my long term defacto wifes name, not mine.

As I said, not an issue when the loan was with RAMS, but it is now that RHG have it.

They also said the only way out was to pay the full $7000.:mad:
 
I have always found RHG to be great people to deal with and there has been no change with that.

Manderson , we have two RHG No Doc 80% LVR loans and have had no issues with them at all from either their products availability or their before & after settlement services. Sure they have increased their rates along with the other lenders but they have also passed on the cuts too. Rates are just a cost of doing business just like all the other costs involved within holding a portfolio. Sure you should always try to minimise costs where ever possible but it shouldnt distract you from your main investment focus in the first instance.

Its rather simple - if the product or service being provided to you isn't moving you forward towards your main investment goal/s as you set out to achieve in the first instance, then change over to an alternative that does!

Focusing on the negative will only be subconsciously sabotaging yourself moving forward.

Guessed wrong. The loan I have is a NO Doc loan, and I put in about 30% for a 70% lend.

Just one query tho, why did you go with a 70% lend over their 80% lend?
 
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Thanks for your input and information, Kristine.

Manderson, I am right there with you. I've got that $7000 hanging over my head too. However, we live and learn and it is one heck of a ride we are all on!:D:D:D

I'm staying put for now.

Good luck with your re-fi.

Regards JO
 
Thanks for the offer Kristine.:)

The $7k I mentioned was for getting out of the no doc loan before the 7 years was up, not for transfer of security. I always new this and do not have an issue with it.

The fees to transfer security I also knew about and I dont have an issue with them either.

I have filled out the forms to do the transfer of security and they have called saying they wont do it as the title of the other property is in my long term defacto wifes name, not mine.

As I said, not an issue when the loan was with RAMS, but it is now that RHG have it.

They also said the only way out was to pay the full $7000.:mad:

Hello manderson

What you are really wanting to do is not, then, Substitution of Security, but rather, removing your security and passing the responsibility of security for the loan to a property owned by another person

Is this right?

This would have never been permitted, and I know of no lender which would accept this.

Your partner cannot act as Guarantor to the loan as it is already an established credit facility, you couldn't even Add A Borrower to the loan for the same reason, but you could add yourself to the title of the alternate security property (capital gains, stamp duties etc) but this would still require an actual refinacing of the loan so you would be no better off

Sorry, but now that the full situation is revealed this isn't about RAMS or RHG or the Bandewallop Credit Union: It is about trying to arrange a situation which is outside of lending policy

Cheers
Kristine
 
Just one query tho, why did you go with a 70% lend over their 80% lend?

Hi Rixter

RAMS were able to offer a 70% No Stated Income option on their Low Doc range and these loans were insured through Prime.

Once Prime was no longer available, the 70% NSI option was no longer available

All No Stated Income loans were a variation on the usual Low Doc or SE range and are the same products but capped at 70%LVR

Early Repayment Fees vary, but usually are completed at the third anniversay of the loan. I am more puzzled by reference to 7 years as no loan I have ever written has a 7 year Early Repayment Fee penalty

However, as I previously outlined, some of the earlier loans had an ERF right up until the end of the 30 year term, others had none at all, so it all depends on the exact loan model of each customer, not just the generic product name

Cheers
Kristine
 
if you think Rams is fleecing you then you should check out some of the other non bank lenders! most of them don't care as they aren't writing new business anyway. With no reputation to protect and no control, it's into the kill zone

of course Swan promised to remove break costs... has since done a swan dance and havn't heard so much as a quack on that issue lately
 
Hello manderson

What you are really wanting to do is not, then, Substitution of Security, but rather, removing your security and passing the responsibility of security for the loan to a property owned by another person

Is this right?

This would have never been permitted, and I know of no lender which would accept this.

Your partner cannot act as Guarantor to the loan as it is already an established credit facility, you couldn't even Add A Borrower to the loan for the same reason, but you could add yourself to the title of the alternate security property (capital gains, stamp duties etc) but this would still require an actual refinacing of the loan so you would be no better off

Sorry, but now that the full situation is revealed this isn't about RAMS or RHG or the Bandewallop Credit Union: It is about trying to arrange a situation which is outside of lending policy

Cheers
Kristine

So the advice from my RAMS guy was wrong then?

When this loan was first done this was what was suggested be done by him:confused:

He new that the property to be used for security was in someone else name.

The other person is my defacto of over 10 years.

He still maintains that he does this with RAMS all the time and it is the same situation as transferring security on a husbands loan to unencumbered property that his wife holds in her name only, for tax purposes.
 
Heres a story from Today Tonight

http://au.todaytonight.yahoo.com/article/5096531/money/beware-bank-exit-fees


Beware of bank exit fees

* Reporter: Jackie Quist
* Broadcast Date: October 22, 2008

Jennifer Phillippiadis doesn't see a way out. The 57-year-old grandmother is paralysed by repayments on a $585,000 mortgage.

Her desperate plan to refinance was blocked by her lender, RHG Mortgage Corporation's demand for extraordinary exit fees.

"I was prepared to pay but I was absolutely shocked to get a letter saying $45,000," Jennifer said.

Last August, Jennifer, a nurse, borrowed $600,000 from RAMS to finance a bed and breakfast business incorporating natural therapies. Three months later the RAMS brand name was sold to Westpac, but some existing RAMS customers and their debts remained with RHG Mortgage Corporation - a company that to Jennifer's horror, sent variable interest rates skywards.

"It started at 7.73, the repayments monthly were about $3901 and it went up to 10.55% at about $5073. In 12 months, just over 12 months, it went up over $1100 a month," Jennifer said.


In desperation she fixed the interest rate on half her loan, not realizing that by doing it, one loan became two - the exit fees double.

"Its simply astounding that exit fees on a mortgage, whether it is one or two loans together, amounts to $45,000. That is astounding and it really shows that our competitive markets are not working," said The Consumer Law Centre's Gerard Brody

"ASIC did release a report looking at the levels of exit fees across different providers. That report found that some of the non-bank lenders had the highest fees in the markets - they were up to $10,000 or more. The banks were next in line the large banks and then the lowest fees of all were the credit unions and that sort of institution," he added.

St George Bank for instance will sting you $5766, more than double the average fee if you exit its no deposit home loan within 3 years. Non-bank lender aims far worse - $9010 for an early departure from its super rate variable home loan.

Fran Beyer would love to change lenders. She too has a home loan with RHG Mortgage Corporation, locked in by high exit fees.

"I would move absolutely tomorrow but I can't because I'm stuck," Fran said.

Treasurer Wayne Swan wants us to find the best mortgage deal, pointing out there are lenders providing mortgages free of exit fees. The problem is consumers are tricked by the many different fee names.

"Deferred establishment fees or unwind fees in addition to early termination charges or early repayment charges - in the UK the regulators require these fees be given one name - they can only be called early repayment charge. There's also guidance provided by the regulator about what amounts make up the early repayment charge, which we think is really good practice," Gerard added.

Jennifer Phillipiadis believes we need similar regulations, but until then, be wary.

:eek:Wow:eek:

Dave
 
Sorry Rixter, the reason was is that was the deal offered by RAMs on the day, the 30% deposit was no problem, and it was always planned on being a 12 - 18 mth deal anyway.

Sevicibility on full doc was an issue at the time which was why no doc was deemed as the solution.
 
I see the current affairs shows are up to their usual style.

The 45 k is not comprised only of exit fees, but is likley to have a large component of economic break cost for the fixed rate that someone will lose out on, on the OTHER side of the contract

Buts easy to pick on targets such as RHG, since they arent really in the business of new mortgages, and as such they cant be bothered to defend such tripe.

You will find almost all non banks, even the ones still going will have similar eco break cost magnitudes on fixed rates

ta
rolf
 
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