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Old 09-10-2008, 03:08 PM
eggnog eggnog is offline
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Recent changes to Brisbane Council minimum lot subdivision

I remember BBC recently changing there minimum area requirements for lot subdivision. It had something to do with increasing minimum lots from 405m to 450m (I think) meaning those 809m/810m blocks can nolonger be subdivided. I would like to know the full details/requirements so I can do some DD. Could anyone point me in the right direction.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:07 PM
boomtown boomtown is offline
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Seems a very strange decision I haven't heard that would also like more info.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:46 PM
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Heres some reference for you

Quote:
http://www.investmenthouse.com.au/ne...e/Web_Page.htm

Brisbane City Council Moves the Goal Posts regarding Small Lot Subdivision

Recently a little known but significant change has been made to Brisbane's small lot development regulations. These changes relate to the minimum size of small lots and (it would seem to many) have been introduced by stealth. These changes hold the potential for some to make a lot of money and others to lose equity - particularly if they are unaware of the impact of the changes.
So what are the changes?

Up until recently, the minimum size for a small lot in Brisbane was 400m2. It’s been that way for a long time – in fact most of Brisbane’s older suburbs hold a myriad of these “16 perch” blocks. Generally, they are 10m wide and 40m deep, though there are also square blocks measuring 20m by 20m. Many house sites comprise two such lots to make up a “32 perch” allotment (809m2).

Effective from 1st January, 2007 – the minimum “low density residential” lot size was increased by Brisbane City Council to 450m2 within the Demolition Control Precinct.
How will it affect land owners?

The impact could be quite substantial. Many people living and buying in Brisbane’s “old and inner ring” suburbs are very aware of the development potential of these “32 perch” blocks. These sites carry a price premium because of the potential for the site to be developed into two “16 perch” lots (and for two houses to be constructed on the site). But for many such owners, that is all about to change. Many sites that could be developed under the old regulations will not any longer be able to be developed under the new rules.

The looming tragedy is most people don’t know about the changes. And it could very likely cost them a lot of money.

Yet it doesn’t apply to everyone. In cases where a house is sitting on two existing 400m2 lots and the house was built post war (and can therefore be demolished), the development potential for the site remains intact. So the new rules will impact upon single lot sites which are larger than 800m2 but less than 900m2 within a Demolition Control Precinct. Plus sites offering subdivision potential where the existing house does not need to be moved (such as corner “cut-off” sites).

The Investment House Research Team undertook a preliminary assessment in the suburb of Camp Hill. They found approximately 33 home owners would be likely to be caught by the changed rules. This could well be reflected across more suburbs.
So what can owners do about it?

The best way for owners of such lots to protect their interests is to apply for a development approval. That way they protect the future potential to develop the site. There is a provision within the Integrated Planning Act for existing landowners to be assessed under the superseded regulations for a period of two years. So owners have about 18 months left before this window closes.

Our Research Team are able to provide further details on these changes and will be happy to explain how owners can protect their interest. If you feel you may be one of those owners who will be affected by the new regulation please email marco@investmenthouse.com.au to discuss the matter further. If you know anyone else who may be in this situation, feel free to pass this information on.
Could find some more info here as well

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:STANDARD:c=PC_258 (dont know where the face came from)

If the site is already drawn as separate lots eg: 1 house on two lots but a single title, there should be no objection and it should only be a few hundred to get it changed to separate titles through DNR

You can usually see a line drawn through the blocks if you go to http://pdonline.brisbane.qld.gov.au/...r/default.aspx

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Old 09-10-2008, 08:08 PM
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The changes were announced in September 2006 and i think came into effect on Jan 1 2007. There are several threads here about all this, just do a search.

in short - the changes only affect lots that are on one title, between 800 and 900m2 and the house is built post 1946 and not a character property etc.

i.e.
- 800m2 block - already on two lots- not a prob to subdivide so long as house post 1946.
- 800m2 block - one one lot- your stuffed unless there is an overriding local area plan allowing exemptions etc.

When this was announced, we had a look around and there was only about 1000 sites across Brisbane that were directly affected by this - all the others were pre-war, demo controlled or widow blocks etc.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:10 PM
eggnog eggnog is offline
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Much appreciated boatboy. I thought it only applied to DCP but wasn't too sure.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:15 PM
boomtown boomtown is offline
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Sorry Im not sure I understand the reference to prewar? Couldnt you do a slip and slide on a prewar before and subdivide?
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:31 PM
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they drew a line in the sand and said that anything pre 1946 will have to be assessed - generally, anything pre 1946 is demo controlled or character housing and you can't so much as touch it without asking for permission - you can slide them still, but the hoops to jump through are harder than they used to be - and it still depends on whether there is one lot or two on the title etc.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:34 PM
wylie wylie is offline
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My understanding is that pre-war houses, you could subdivide the block, slide it over and build on the other block.

With post-war houses you can demolish it and have two blocks, which is perhaps better as you don't have to fiddle with the existing house.

We have a double block, back to back, 15m frontage both streets (two street access) but both houses are pre-war on a demo controlled block, so not nearly as attractive to a developer as if the houses were post war. If a developer wants our block, he has to keep both houses and build in the middle.

We are hoping that in the years to come some rich developer will knock on our door with a bag full of money .

Although, we have been told that our two big blocks are probably not worth any more as development blocks than they would be worth to a family looking for a block big enough for a big renovation/extension and a pool and/or tennis court.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:37 PM
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Hey wylie - simplistic way of saying it - but you are largely correct.

with your blocks i still reckon townhouses are the way to go...four back to back on the middle boundary and reno the front two houses to be unit 1 etc.

very common through areas on the northside like kedron and lutwyche with similar age issues.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:58 PM
WinstonWolfe WinstonWolfe is offline
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All good to me. In another 5-7 years, not only do I believe they will relax these restrictions, but to the point they'll let you do more than 2x405s.... how else are they going to cram more people close to the cbd.

As traffic gets worse and POO goes over $2/L, wait and watch
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:06 PM
wylie wylie is offline
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I agree about holding and waiting. The land is never going to go away, and as land gets scarce a developer who wouldn't be interest now, may well sniff us out down the track.

A trusted local agent (plus a local developer who looked at renting one of the houses) both told us that the blocks (as big house blocks) are about the same value as a development block. We bought the second block with a view to developing town houses or two individual houses ourselves, but we are sitting on our hands for the present.

We did, however, contact the town planner who looked at the blocks originally when this new change to the city plan came in, and he said it made no difference to our blocks because they are over 900sqm.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:09 PM
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i think you are right there WW...

i heard on the grapevine the other day that it is being mooted in both levels of government to allow major increases in density to allow new york/tokyo etc. styles of apartment buildings through some areas of the inner north - bowne hills, albion, herston and windsor all got a mention.

further there is talk that much of the postwar inner north through to about stafford will be going much higher densities than the current res A/LMR that is common.

be interesting to see what happens there!!

cheers
UC


p.s. when are we having that brew??
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:35 PM
WinstonWolfe WinstonWolfe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urban cowboy View Post
i think you are right there WW...

i heard on the grapevine the other day that it is being mooted in both levels of government to allow major increases in density to allow new york/tokyo etc. styles of apartment buildings through some areas of the inner north - bowne hills, albion, herston and windsor all got a mention.

further there is talk that much of the postwar inner north through to about stafford will be going much higher densities than the current res A/LMR that is common.

be interesting to see what happens there!!

cheers
UC


p.s. when are we having that brew??
have thought of a brew a couple of times recently UC. But I've been staying up messing with US stock market for a few months, then 9/08 hit.....so my biorhythms are screwed up.

nearly called you about a friend going through big D who wants to sell at Gordon Park, but their ducks aren't in a straight line yet.

might be able to do it next week or two.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:38 PM
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no sweat mate - look forward to the call!!

been off sick for last 6 weeks anyway, so prob couldn't have done much up until now!

talk soon.
G.
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Old 10-10-2008, 05:17 PM
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thanks fellows, i was about to ask this question myself...

something similar is happening here (WA) as well. R20 sites less than 1000m2 can no longer be sub-divided... the state govt is giving owners 1 year to sort this out- as in, sub-divide now or never. i guess this is an 'invisible hand' to increase supply of blocks. owners got till April next year to submit their applications.
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:22 PM
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How do you find out the title history of a block?

Ours is the biggest in the street and is half-vacant and some old codger on the street said there used to be another house on the vacant side. The numbering also skips over the vacant block. We're curious as to if the block was ever once two lots that have been merged at some point. If it was ever two separate blocks this could make our subdivision process MUCH easier, as the frontage is non-compliant by 1 metre.
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:45 PM
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two places - your local lands and titles office...do a title search on your name.

OR

some councils now have what they call PDonline - go to your councils website, check out the development section and see if there is something there for a property enquiry. type your address in and check the map. there should be a function there to give you the lot numbers.

the other easier way would be to find someone with RPdata access for your area and ask them to do a quick ownership search. (I can't do SA sorry). RP will show if there is one lot or two etc.

Having street numbers jump is a fairly good indication that you may be on the right track.
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:15 AM
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OK, witht he pre/post-war house, how do you find out when a house was built and if it would fall under the DCP laws or not.
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:27 AM
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PDonline on the council website will give you most of the demo answers - indirectly - you will have to do some homework on your local area codes etc.

as for the age of the house - find the oldest person in the street and ask them when they moved there - sounds simplistic but i have done it many times in DCP areas to beat council at their own game.

you can alo just ring the council townplanners and ask them the zoning and restrictions for a given house - they are pretty good and will tell you outright - better still go into a council office and talk to the development person there - they will show you on Bimap - has all the zones and whilst there you can get all the pipes and services locations!

Council also archive all the data pertaining to houses since its inception, you can go to council and ask for he archived data about a street. The last time i did it, i managed to prove that a house was built in 1946 (as opposed to pre-war) from their own records of the estate sales and building applications.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:01 AM
wylie wylie is offline
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An agent a few weeks ago told me that the post-war figure is not just to do with the war, and not just to do with the style of house being "must save" before the war, and "not needing saving" after. (Although, plenty of post-war houses lack architectural merit - but that is a matter of beauty being in the eyes of the beholder ).

He reckons that 1945 (or 1946?) is when the first maps were taken from satellite or plane. Anyway, he reckons that council picked this date because of the ability to check the maps and see whether a house was on the block, or not, at that date.

Curious to hear whether this is true or not. Sounds feasible.
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