Labour Drift on RUDDerless

thefirstbruce said:

When you look at Aust politics and all the trouble in the Labor Party currently, it isn't hard to see they are ready for a great role model with vision who can align all the different factions.

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And it Ain't Kim Beasley .

I have a feeling that he will be a little bit like John Howard. Not someone who jumps out as a natural leader . Quiet and fairly reserved in someways , comes across as being a normal person on TV.. Someone who believes in things and not just being a politician.

Untill he gets the job Labour will drift on RUDDerless.

Gee, it's been a while since we had a good political debate

See Change

see_change said:

I have a feeling that he will be a little bit like John Howard.

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See Change,
Just opened my mail,the plumbers union will start the
Light the Fuse Tour Community Day of Protest on
April 7 th,2006.The Union may be liable for a 110k
fine for encouraging workers to participate in
Industrial action, also individuals could be
prosecuted by the ABCC for participating
the lines have been draw in the sand..
willair......

I'll bite SC, if only because it makes the world a more interesting place.

/me sh[r]udders at the thought of Kevin Rudd being PM


Looking at the ALPs Federal Shadow Ministry for the list of plausible alternative Leaders......

I'd like to see Julia Gillard in the hot seat. She's intelligent, a bit fiesty (but not bitchy), and much better looking than Beazley or Crean.

We should remember also that Peter Garrett (a very intelligent and articulate man imho) is also a Federal ALP MP. Beazley is a complete fool to be wasting his considerable talents on the otherwise forgettable role of "Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Reconciliation and the Arts".


Mark

Pitt St said:

I'd like to see Julia Gillard in the hot seat. She's intelligent, a bit fiesty (but not bitchy), and much better looking than Beazley or Crean.

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There was an excellent Australian Story documentary on her a few weeks ago.. I really warmed to her after seeing that.. I think she'd make a great leader for our country.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2006/s1583662.htm

not being a true believer myself, I think Labor need a few guys who have actually been in SMEs, and not the sheltered workshop professions (of which I include my work). tis easy to be a bleeding heart, more admirable and quite rare to be a bleeding heart who can create wealth (from something else apart from passive property investing).

agree that Julia is impressive to listen to, but think she is still a little too idealistic. maybe she needs to run a fish and chip shop for a year.

Much of my view re Kevin Rudd has been formed by watching him ( and Joe hockey ) as regulars on the In Depth Political analysis show , sunrise ....

If you've never seen them before , one would swear that Rudd was the liberal and hockey was the labour guy , so from that view point , Rudd is someone who is going to be more acceptable to the middle ground and liberals than Julia Gillard. She is an impressive person , but the average Australian is going to be very wary of someone from the left of the labour party getting into the main job. I think this aspect is not to be underestimated. Apparently Julie's appearance on Australian story didn't go down well withing the labour party as it occured at the time of the preselection battles and was seen a an attempt to undermine Beasley and promote her ( which it obviously was ....)

Getting back to sunrise , it actually give people a chance to see that politicians are normal people and Kevin and Joe come across as normal people. Rudd also comes across as being very intelligent ( not that that makes them a good politician ) and a nice likeable person who can crack a joke.

Normally the only time we get to see politicians are in staged managed , political situations ( maybe sunrise is that as well ) and we don't really get to see the real person. While obviously not every one in Australia watches Sunrise, but even out in Mt Druitt , alot do , and several of my patients have raised it and Kevin rudd when political topics come up. There's a lot of disillusioned labour voters out there who spend time complaining about the party at the moment and they never mention Julia Gillard as a potential leader. Latham polarised them , Bealey frustrates them ( unfullfilled potential .... ) but Rudd does seem to be the one they think can lead them out of the political wilderness , though Peter Garrett does get an occasional mention.


If RUDD does get the job he may be the first Genuine TV politician.

I think the next political dynastial clashes will be Rudd Vs Nelson.

See Change

Fair comment, Bruce.

Look closely at the biographies of ALPs Shadow Ministry and their occupations before entering Parliament. You'll find lots of lawyers, union officials, political advisers and the like.

But not many people who come from the real working class that the ALP purports to represent.

Like them or hate them, at least the Liberals in Parliament are a snapshot of their bread and butter (professionals, capitalists, etc).

Mark

Pitt St said:

Fair comment, Bruce.

Look closely at the biographies of ALPs Shadow Ministry and their occupations before entering Parliament. You'll find lots of lawyers, union officials, political advisers and the like.

But not many people who come from the real working class that the ALP purports to represent.

Like them or hate them, at least the Liberals in Parliament are a snapshot of their bread and butter (professionals, capitalists, etc).

Mark

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It has been a very long time since the resumes of the senior ALP members haven't been lawyers, union officials, political advisors and you can add to that media.

buzzlightyear said:

It has been a very long time since the resumes of the senior ALP members haven't been lawyers, union officials, political advisors and you can add to that media.

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which explains why they haven't read the electorate right anytime recently.

In the 70s, I worked in advertising and was involved in several successful political ad campaigns. From my dealings with both parties, I was very disappointed with their grasp on PR and the collective conscious (or unconscious). They spend all these dollars on surveys, then ignore it.

Pauline Hanson tapped into what Fed Labor have been ignoring for decades. Qld Labor have been doing the same for the last few years, and will be out next election IMHO. They have totally misjudged and mishandled the Qld Health thing. But what does Beattie care, he is ready to retire, and is too egocentric to care what happens after he leaves.

thefirstbruce said:

. But what does Beattie care, he is ready to retire, and is too egocentric to care what happens after he leaves.

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Sounds a bit Like Bob ( faster than a rat off a sinking boat ) Carr.

Or should that be collapsing tunnel.

See Change

Since when does any politician care about what happens after they leave?

Mark

Mark Laszczuk said:

Since when does any politician care about what happens after they leave?

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Or most people in business for that matter....

Do we expect more of our pollies than we're prepared to put in ourselves?

IMHO, God may save the Queen, but nothing can save the Labor party.

And it's a bloody shame. We need real alternatives.

But politics is not an attractive career path for anyone other than independently wealthy business people and entertainers.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

The Laberal's formally (but secretly) became a one party system sometime in the late 80's there Acey. The only alternative is a bunch of smelly hippies from Tasmania, rednecks from Qld and a party that can't agree on anything (that's what you get when throw a bunch of lefties in a room together, too busy fighting each other to actually get anything done).

Mark

Hadn't thought of commenting on this thread until I was lucky enough to listen to Kevin Rudd on the radio during a loooooong drive yesterday...

see_change said:

Untill he gets the job Labour will drift on RUDDerless.

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Rudd could take over the job tomorrow and they would still be up the creek without a paddle (or a canoe, or even maybe without the creek itself)

Does he have any ideas of his own???

I know its symptomatic of being part of the Labor party, but I think I listened to about 20 minutes of Rudd interviews, and not once did he say how he would fix things - he just harped on and on about what the Libs were doing wrong.

Im all for pointing out when someone is failing in their duties - but part of calling someone out is to have an alternative or solution ready to make things better. Do the Labor party have their own ideas on anything? Or do they try to make political hay by simply saying the opposite of what the Libs say, and hope that there are enough uninformed voters to get them across the line next time?

Listen to the audio of Beazley decrying the new Uranium plans of the Libs... he doesnt like it, but he can't tell you why, and he won't tell you what Labor would do because he won't be rushed into a decision (Beazley's words)

Do we currently have the most impotent, ineffectual opposition in Australia's history???

Whether its Beazley, Rudd or Gillard, all I see is one of them playing the part of the Captain of the Titanic come next Election Day. Plenty of bravado and steely resolve in the face of adversity, but completely overwhelmed, inadequate, and destined to go down with the ship to a watery grave.

Jamie.

Jamie said:

Do we currently have the most impotent, ineffectual opposition in Australia's history???

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If only they could put as much effort into bringing down Howard, as they put into bringing down each other....

Mark

Jamie said:

Do we currently have the most impotent, ineffectual opposition in Australia's history???

Jamie.

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Yes we do. It's the Liberal Party in NSW. I'd think that if we had quiz to ask people who the leader of the NSW party was , the result would be very low. I can't think of his name at the moment and the number of times he gets mentioned in the media ( considering the train wreck that the NSW state Govt is at the moment ) is abysmal.

See Change

Unfortunately, Mr Debnam <SP> has been shown to be an emperor with no clothes when interviewed on ABC Local Radio. Just like the Fed opposition, he is eager and willing to criticise, but unwilling to provide any detail of his alternatives. When pushed, he stumbles, tries feebly to redirect it, but just isn't up to the task and is shown wanting. It would be so much easier if they had formulated a policy prior to attacking.

It's a damn shame....

barracuda2 said:

It would be so much easier if they had formulated a policy prior to attacking.

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Nice point.

Speaking about federal politics here - personally, I think the ALP has screwed up big time in the last few elections by leaving policy announcments to the election campaign. Too late!

In the heat of the campaign, Howard's just drowns them out.

So when people go to vote, they have a choice between Howard (everyone knows what he stands for) and the other people who stand for ???

I don't believe people change government on a whim. Imho for a change of government to occur then:

(1) there must be a common consensus that the current government is crap or

(2) there must be a common consensus that the opposition can do a better job, or

(3) a combination of 1 and 2.


Howard might not be everyone's cup of tea, but he isn't doing a bad job.

And with the ALP consistently annoucing policies at the 11th hour, how can anyone be convinced they could do a better job?

Mark

Opposition Policies

When has any opposition party of whatever political colour have any clearly enunciated alternative policies. The last real example was Hewson in 1993. That was the unlosable election for the Coalition.

Given the conservatism of Australian electorates (look at history and prevalence of government changes in both Federal/State elections), it is easy to spook the 'electorate' by fear/negative campaigns especially those from an incumbent government on new policies. Given the Hewson experience, no oppostion wants to release too much detail, because it is a much easier target to nit pick and take away the focus on the broader policy objective. eg Latham's private school policy

The reality is that governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them.

I agree. How many different policies have we had out of labour now over the last 10 years? How many changes of direction from the Govt?

Both NSW state and Fed opposition are adopting the same strategy and it just isn't working. Debnam actually has stated that he won't release a policy statement on many things until close to the election. So the intervening period is just wasted opportunity. If they had a killer policy, they would have 6-12 months of support for their poilicy and opportunity to refine it, rather than throw it out at the last minute.

So what if the current govt borrows the policy? Well, that might just be better for us all - I don't think people will forget if they can show that the opposition policies are now the ones running the state. It will provide enough public understanding that the opposition would be an effective govt.

As it is, the state opposition (and I wouldn't limit this to just Libs) have lost momentum, a golden opportunity and have let Mr Iemma become confident over the last 6 months. I personaly thought Mr Iemma was nervous and under-whelming to begin with - a consistent, forthright and confident Lib leader had a perfect opportunity to keep him that way and make points on the NSW Govt all over the place.

Anyway - it's easy from the sidelines...