Qld State Govt approves New Logan Planning Scheme. Start in May

IT's GOING LIVE on 18 May 2015!

The Logan Planning Scheme 2015 v1.1 was adopted by Logan City Council on 12 May 2015 and subsequently commenced on 18 May 2015.

The Logan Planning Scheme 2015 helps Council to manage population growth, plan for a sustainable future for Logan, and guide the way land is used and developed across the city. The scheme replaces the city's three previous planning schemes, reducing red tape and simplifying the rules for property development.

To find out which parts of the planning scheme apply to a property, please use either:

Council's interactive online mapping service; or
The property enquiry search in PD Online


Lots of interesting tools and information in the website esp. regarding development - fees and charges & infrastructure planning and charges
http://www.logan.qld.gov.au/planning-and-building/planning-and-development/logan-planning-scheme

According to the Submissions and Responses report: -
  • Council will not apply infrastructure charges for Secondary dwellings or Auxiliary units. This is to ensure the product remains an affordable and viable housing option.
  • A Dual occupancy (Auxiliary unit) development is not currently subject to infrastructure charges.
 
Thanks RetireRich101.. You have certainly given me a blueprint to where i go now.. Many thanks for your time.
I received a email back from LCC regarding a enquiry i had involving sub division with this particular lot. The information from BeanieGirl and retireRich101 is correct not that i doubted them !

Under the new scheme (which is current today) you can apply under the old superseeded scheme which LCC call it for 12 months. There is a fee of around $270 extra to make a application under the old scheme.
In regards to RetireRich101 inquiry in previous pages i have found out that there is no difference in charges for a impact assessable application from a code assessable application. The only thing that changes is the time frame from "code" being around only one month for approval with "impact" taking up to 3 months. They did not shed light in this corner block's instance that it would or not be approved if i was to apply for subdivision under the new scheme.

I rang to ask a LCC town planner regarding further enquiries regarding duel occupancy (second dwelling). The LCC town planner was very unsure and confused (as much as we all are) regarding what fees and charges would occur if this option was taken. She did say, yes you can separately rent out the other dwelling. To what size building you could build the TP could not confirm or if another driveway was allowed or not? I may have to take this up with a Independant Town planner to seek more advice on secondary dwellings.

In summery the Sub division with 1 title into 2 does make it a lot cleaner and less confusing to understand from where LCC see's this compared to the Duel occupancy (second dwelling) scenario. Wondering if any SS on this thread have more info regarding secong dwelling and if anyone has used this approach. It got me thinking if you were to put a relocatable large home on your free block (much cheaper) and simply rented it out if that would work. More food for thought...
 
I rang to ask a LCC town planner regarding further enquiries regarding duel occupancy (second dwelling). The LCC town planner was very unsure and confused (as much as we all are) regarding what fees and charges would occur if this option was taken. She did say, yes you can separately rent out the other dwelling. To what size building you could build the TP could not confirm or if another driveway was allowed or not? I may have to take this up with a Independant Town planner to seek more advice on secondary dwellings.

It got me thinking if you were to put a relocatable large home on your free block (much cheaper) and simply rented it out if that would work. More food for thought...

Sounds like good news all round, YB. The great thing is that you have many possibilities and options open to you and can chose the one that works best to meet your goals.

I was just re-reading an old post of mine re the Logan Draft Plan and was reminded that I had read in Fact Sheet 20 that the Dual Occupancy second dwelling 'has no dwelling restriction size'. Fact Sheet 20 was trying to distinguish the dwelling size of the auxiliary unit (70m ) from the allowable size of the second dwelling on a dual occupancy block.

Also at that time, the Draft Plan was recommending that the auxiliary (granny) unit had to be attached to the main dwelling by a common wall but the New Logan Plan now allows auxiliary unit to be completely detached from the main dwelling....or attached. Either way now is fine.

Maybe next time you call the Logan Planning Dept, ask them if they remember Fact Sheet 20 on Dual Occupancy and where it stated there was 'no dwelling restriction size'' for the second dwelling on a block eligible for Dual Occupancy. :D

The Draft Logan Planning Scheme seems to positively welcome dual occupancy, dual occupancy (dual key) and granny flats to accommodate increasing population.

For example, a house zoned low density residential and in a suburban precinct can have dual occupancy (dual key) - same house rented to 2 separate groups of people as long as
  • dwellings share a common wall,
  • a common driveway and
  • are owned by the same person on one title
a house zoned low density residential and in a suburban precinct can have dual occupancy (2 houses) as long as land is 1000m and above (700m if on a corner block).
The subordinate dwelling (read house:D)
  1. has no dwelling size restriction size
  2. can be self-contained
I believe that you don't even have to spend money to subdivide the land in the above scenario if the draft scheme becomes reality. But please check with Logan Planning first to confirm (07) 3412 4247

You can also have a granny flat (self-contained) attached to the dwelling (share a common wall) in a low density residential zone. The granny flat is either present already or you can build it. Maximum size restriction 70m.
This granny flat, as I understand it when I talked to the planners, can be rented out to a separate person/s unrelated to the people in the main dwelling.
 
Impact assessment
Good to hear the impact assessment does not incur extra or significant cost. The longer time for impact assessment is because it requires notification of neighbors and need to wait a period. If there are objections, there may be further delays.

infra fees
here is my understanding and with some examples

500m2 lot
  1. existing main house, build detached 70m2 aux unit, no infra fee payable
  2. existing main house, build attached 70m2 aux unit to main house, no infra fee payable
  3. vacant lot, build new main house + detached 70m2 aux unit, 1 x infra fee payable for main house
  4. vacant lot, build new main house + attached 70m2 aux unit, 1 x infra fee payable for main house
  5. Dual occupancy (2 title) is not applicable as 500m2 does not allow dual occupancy (2 title)

1000m2
  1. existing main house, build detached 100m2 aux unit, no infra fee payable
  2. existing main house, build attached 100m2 aux unit to main house, no infra fee payable
  3. vacant lot, build new main house + detached 100m2 aux unit, 1 x infra fee payable for main house only
  4. vacant lot, build new main house + attached 100m2 aux unit, 1 x infra fee payable for main house only
  5. Dual Occupancy(2 Title).. can sell each separately, will incur extra set of rate notice.
  6. existing main house, build detached dwelling, 1 x infra fee payable for the new dwelling
  7. existing main house, build attached dwelling to main house, 1 x infra fee payable for the dwelling

Fact Sheet 20.
Now I recall I wasn't dreaming. The FS20 was initially released and then rest info came later. I recall FS20 has 70m2 requirement, but does not minimum bedroom requirement.. It was later on they added this requirement that it must be more than 2 bedroom..
 
RR
With a vacant lot - there is no infrastructure fee payable to build a main house. The principle is that the infrastructure fee has been payable at the time that the lot was created.
 
RR
With a vacant lot - there is no infrastructure fee payable to build a main house. The principle is that the infrastructure fee has been payable at the time that the lot was created.

But the funny thing, Sequin, is that infrastructure fees are payable for a second large dwelling (dual occ, not auxiliary unit)) on a lot that already has a main house. That is, the lot with the main house has already been created. There must be some other principle operating with regards to infrastructure fees.
 
Infrastructure charges are calculated based on the additional demand placed on the infrastructure networks.

So a vacant lot is planned to have one dwelling - no charges due.
An additional, separate dwelling like a dual occupancy is being charged for a second new dwelling on the lot.

Charges are capped in Qld by the State govt - Logan could charge for each additional dwelling, but is effectively offering discounts for certain types of dwelling - like auxiliary units.
 
RR
With a vacant lot - there is no infrastructure fee payable to build a main house. The principle is that the infrastructure fee has been payable at the time that the lot was created.

Correct.

In YoungBull situation, if the block was subdivided creating a vacant 497m2 lot, the infra fee is immediately payable. However if YB is to submit application for subdivision and at the same time to build, then the infra is payable when construction completed, not when the subdivision was approved.

The infra see cant be avoided, but you can effectively defer with above..

When buying a vacant land, the assumption here is LCC enforced seller paid the infra fee before they can sell..

Is this your understanding Sequin?
 
managing existing tenant

Has anyone got a golden negotiation strategy with an existing tenant. One of my IPs had a 1 year tenancy that has 6 months life left in it. Not sure if tenant would be happy to lose privacy during construction period (or wud even consent to it) and ongoing share of backyard.

Do i volunteer a financial sweetener to get it built? Or just let them go.

They have been good long term tenants....
 
maybe some NSW people might be able to help you Holmes2012 as similar story when building granny flats.

Would say a discount of $20 per week sounds ok and have a contract about time of construction (but depends on the tenant and also if the current rent is on market)
 
Hi everyone, I was asked by Beanie Girl to get involved here as we build a lot of granny flats in this area using both the old town plan and this new town plan. We had a bit of a better time in the old town plan as we had no limitations on sizes for self-assessable annexed units (this current town plan's equivalent of secondary dwellings). Now, we have to deal with the limit of 2 bedroom 70SQM and 3 bedoom 100SQM if blocks are over 1000SQM. Please be aware council is not sure how they will deal with blocks on the border line but we are submitting some 100SQM 3 bedders for clients and taking them on a case by case basis.

In any case, if you have any questions I can answer them here.
 
For the Dual Occ (aux unit), you need:
  1. Must have a minimum of four car spaces (including two spacesfor the primary dwelling).
  2. Council rates apply for Auxiliary unit.

yuck :eek:
 
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Hi everyone, I was asked by Beanie Girl to get involved here as we build a lot of granny flats in this area using both the old town plan and this new town plan. We had a bit of a better time in the old town plan as we had no limitations on sizes for self-assessable annexed units (this current town plan's equivalent of secondary dwellings). Now, we have to deal with the limit of 2 bedroom 70SQM and 3 bedoom 100SQM if blocks are over 1000SQM. Please be aware council is not sure how they will deal with blocks on the border line but we are submitting some 100SQM 3 bedders for clients and taking them on a case by case basis.

In any case, if you have any questions I can answer them here.

Thanks MWDB, I started reading the New Logan Planning Scheme and realising that just because the scheme is 'silent', for instance, on rear setbacks or side setbacks of dual occupancy (auxiliary units) doesn't mean there is no requirement for a rear setback. There are perhaps building codes in Queensland or Australia-wide that I am unclear about. Actually I am definitely unclear about those sorts of matters! ;)
Then there's site coverage issues and Gross Floor Area (including or excluding carport/garages) that is not quite readily apparent in the Planning Schemes. So it's hard to navigate. We're not quite groping in absolute darkness but there are quite a lot of issues we end up making 'educated' guesses about.

And my experience with Council planners in both Melbourne and Brisbane is that the level of answer you get depends on whether you are asking the right questions on the relevant topic. If you don't hit the right question on the right subject area, the answers received are pretty waffly. So thank you for coming on board to help us in grappling with issues/questions we face.
 
For the Dual Occ (aux unit), you need:
  1. Must have a minimum of four car spaces (including two spacesfor the primary dwelling).
  2. Council rates apply for Auxiliary unit.

yuck :eek:

The aforementioned Council rates for auxiliary units did catch me off guard. Logan City Council never mentioned that before in any of their prior communications.
It can't be a full Council rate for a 2 bedroom 70m auxiliary unit, RR, just can't be!
 
For the Dual Occ (aux unit), you need:
  1. Must have a minimum of four car spaces (including two spacesfor the primary dwelling).
  2. Council rates apply for Auxiliary unit.

yuck :eek:

Hi RetireRich101, you are correct in this. An auxiliary unit comes under the dual occupancy code. For car parking requirements, please reference part 9, page 74:

Dual occupancy
2 spaces per dwelling, 1 of which is covered

Per dwelling is the important note here. A dwelling is defined in the definitions of the planning scheme, SC1.2, page 40 as:

A building or part of a building used or capable of being used as a self- contained residence that must include the following:
(a) food preparation facilities;
(b) a bath or shower;
(c) a toilet and wash basin;
(d) clothes washing facilities.
This term includes outbuildings, structures and works normally associated with a dwelling.

This means a kitchen, bathroom, WC and laundry. If an auxiliary unit contains all of these things then it is considered a dwelling under the definitions of the planning scheme.

Now, in terms of parking spaces we are now looking at 2 covered parking spaces, and 2 uncovered parking spaces. This means you could potentially have a carport or garage, then another car parked in the driveway. There are some limitations however. These are defined in the Queensland Development Code Part MP1.2 on the last page. If you have car parks in tandem, that is one behind the other, the covered park must be behind the setback line. Setback lines are defined in the Logan Planning Scheme and QDC also. Different precincts have different setbacks.

Basically this means nothing has changed. If you have a house with a double garage you are fine. If you have a house with side access, just put up a carport. You are going to need one anyway. This IS Queensland we are talking about here. I think its just common sense to have a carport for your granny flats.

As for granny flats being rated - this is the trade-off for the new planning scheme. They make it obvious for investors that they can build these and rent them out, without even going to council for an application. However, they are now dual occupancies. Self-contained dwellings are all rated. The good news is that they aren't making you put in council sewer and water connections. You don't even have to put in a separate power meter if you don't want to. Auxiliary units are like a cross-over between secondary dwellings and fully-fledged dual occupancies.
 
Thanks MWDB, I started reading the New Logan Planning Scheme and realising that just because the scheme is 'silent', for instance, on rear setbacks or side setbacks of dual occupancy (auxiliary units) doesn't mean there is no requirement for a rear setback. There are perhaps building codes in Queensland or Australia-wide that I am unclear about. Actually I am definitely unclear about those sorts of matters! ;)
Then there's site coverage issues and Gross Floor Area (including or excluding carport/garages) that is not quite readily apparent in the Planning Schemes. So it's hard to navigate. We're not quite groping in absolute darkness but there are quite a lot of issues we end up making 'educated' guesses about.

And my experience with Council planners in both Melbourne and Brisbane is that the level of answer you get depends on whether you are asking the right questions on the relevant topic. If you don't hit the right question on the right subject area, the answers received are pretty waffly. So thank you for coming on board to help us in grappling with issues/questions we face.

In terms of setbacks and site cover refer to Part 9 of the planning scheme, PO4 and PO5 which are found on page 15.

This is in addition to your standard Queensland wide setbacks found in QDC Part MP1.2 for lots over 450m2. There is also another QDC for lots under 450m2 which is referred to as the small lot code.

Click here and go to page 9 for more information in regards to site setbacks. It also gives you setbacks from roads, average setbacks based on neighbours houses and setbacks from truncations ect.
 
Has anyone got a golden negotiation strategy with an existing tenant. One of my IPs had a 1 year tenancy that has 6 months life left in it. Not sure if tenant would be happy to lose privacy during construction period (or wud even consent to it) and ongoing share of backyard.

Do i volunteer a financial sweetener to get it built? Or just let them go.

They have been good long term tenants....

Hi Holmes2012,

When we build for clients I always recommend the honesty approach. Also have some backup plans for common scenarios. You can either 1) let them go, 2) explain that we put up a fence and show where it will be located according to the site plan provided by the builder, they could be happy with this and carry on as usual, or 3) they are happy to have the fence put up and construction commence, but for a financial cost. Most common is around $50 a week reduced rent.
 
I find that the new Logan planning scheme is 'silent' on side and rear setbacks for dual occupancy (auxiliary unit) under 'Criteria for self-assessable and assessable development'
There are no specifications for side and rear sidebacks in part 9.3.1.3 of 'Development Codes' . I can only find the following criteria for front setback and how far the auxiliary unit can be from the main dwelling house.

A09
A secondary dwelling or a Dual occupancy
(auxiliary unit):
(a) has a primary street setback equal to or
greater than the Dwelling house or primary
dwelling;
(b) is located a maximum of 20 metres from the
outermost projection of the Dwelling house or
primary dwelling

I suppose it's common sense to put some amount of rear and side setbacks even if there are no specifications. The auxiliary unit not being able to be more than 20 metres from the outermost projection of the primary dwelling would yield a sizeable rear setback. And the common auxiliary unit being 70m in size would not have such big site coverage that would leave little 'side setbacks' on the block.

I suppose the stated planning controls for 'auxiliary unit' - size, front setback, maximum distance from primary dwelling - are sufficient to set reasonable parameters/outcomes for 'side' and 'rear' setbacks.

Standard QLD setback of 1.5M for rear and side boundary to the eaves according to LOgan Council.
 
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