Racism in Australia

Thanks for the suck eggs lesson.

Did I mention I did French for 5 years in High School? So, I have walked a few blocks in their shoes.

Five years studying French in high school doesn't equip you to judge immigrants and their English skills.

Move to Milan or Paris, take a menial job working in a factory, find a house in the worst part of the city, be treated like a leper, and become proficient at the language while everyone is laughing at the way you dress, how unclean (they think) you are and how unclean your house is, the rubbish food you eat, and anything else you can think of. Then you can judge.
 
The truth is that there is always be miserable unhappy people who want to blame someone for their situation. They may decide they hate you because of the colour of your skin, your accent, your country of birth, the football team you support, or how much money you have in your bank account. It is an unfortunate reality and will never change. The rest of us just need to stick together and be vocal about the fact that we do not and never will tolerate this sort of thing to become main stream.

I'm a white recent immigrant with an obvious accent (Irish) and I've been on the receiving end of a couple of probably well intentioned but ignorant (and extremely irritating ) comments (begorah begosh rubbish or similar) which I brush off with a smile and laugh while suppressing the urge to smack someone :), but my husband was on the receiving end of some outright bigotry at a (sober) work function. My husband said that everyone else who was there seemed shocked and the guy shut up pretty quickly but it was an uncomfortable experience.

I can only imagine what it must be like to be a person of colour and to be on the receiving end of overt racism regularly, not to mention the less direct stuff.
 
Bayview, don't judge until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes. Judge when you have managed to move overseas and learn the language. Your brother in law came over here probably having studied English at school. How quickly you learn another language depends upon how much shy you are and how many mistakes you are willing to make in front of others. If you don't care, you'll learn it quickly; if you are frightened of speaking for fear of making mistakes, it'll take longer. That's my experience and that of my children.

I can give atleast a hundred examples of people who have gone to England, France, Germany, Norway, Denmark, well practically every European country without even knowing the alphabets and survived there and learned the language :cool:
 
As do the migrants who come to this country, eventually--perhaps not as well as some Anglos would like.

Did those people you know who learned English do it having left war-torn and poverty-stricken countries where they themselves had little opportunity for ANY education (let alone English language)? Did they take up menial jobs and live in unsavoury parts of cities? Were they ostracised because of the colour of their skin, the food they ate or the clothes they wore? Probably not. And all those issues contribute to someone not learning the English well enough for some of the more myopic and narrow minded in our communities.
 
Sydney and Melbourne are some of the most tolerant cities I've seen in my life. They have their share of problems, but it's better than most places except maybe the States and Canada.
 
Did those people you know who learned English do it having left war-torn and poverty-stricken countries where they themselves had little opportunity for ANY education (let alone English language)? Did they take up menial jobs and live in unsavoury parts of cities? Were they ostracised because of the colour of their skin, the food they ate or the clothes they wore? .

Yes to all. But then different people react in different ways. I am not trying to prove anything here, just want to convey that I think that if a new language is needed to survive, people will learn quickly.

When people have no other option, they will learn. But when a certain community get settled in certain areas, they get comfortable and then they cannot. For example when these families sponsored their parents, most struggle to learn the new language. The newer waves of migrants take longer to learn languages.
 
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When someone apologises to me for their bad English, my replay always is, "I wish my Arabic/French/Italian/Russian (whatever) were as good as your English.' For those who speak only one language, it is probably good to keep in mind that migrants know more languages than you do.
 
But when a certain community get settled in certain areas, they get comfortable and then they cannot. For example when these families sponsored their parents, most struggle to learn the new language. The newer waves of migrants take longer to learn languages.

Singo, even if they don't learn and 'integrate', the first generation Australians (their children) do--by and large.
 
Sydney and Melbourne are some of the most tolerant cities I've seen in my life. They have their share of problems, but it's better than most places except maybe the States and Canada.

Comparing two cities with two countries may not be a good comparison :)
Toronto and Vancouver are two of the most tolerant cities in the world. I lived in Toronto for 1.5 years and didn't even hear of racial issues there. To be fair, Toronto is usually in competition for the top spot of being the most multicultural city in the world.

USA is a big country, coastal cities tend to be more tolerant (and democratic) :D
 
Five years studying French in high school doesn't equip you to judge immigrants and their English skills.
It equips me to know what is involved in learning another language. It takes work, practice and effort.

I put it to you that the majority of older immigrants in Aus who are terrible at English are that way of their own choice not some learning difficulty derived out of some other factor...much easier to hide in the Community and speak the lingo if you can manage it..

Move to Milan or Paris, take a menial job working in a factory, find a house in the worst part of the city, be treated like a leper, and become proficient at the language while everyone is laughing at the way you dress, how unclean (they think) you are and how unclean your house is, the rubbish food you eat, and anything else you can think of. Then you can judge
Seriously? they laugh at how unclean your house is? the rubbish food you eat?

Really?

Come on, now.

Maybe the house really was a pigstye? Plenty of skanky Aussie bogans are pigs; I wouldn't be using that one as an excuse to not learn English after 50 years.

Maybe - maybe; that's how they treat immigrants in those two locations, and if they do; it shows that it still can be done despite some serious obstacles, I'd say.

Maybe the Italians and the French treat everyone that way. I know the French can be a bit snooty.

I don't know which parts of Aus you've lived in, but all the parts I've ever lived in the folks don't do that..."hey; how about that dirty immigrant house, and what about that tripe they eat!".

Come on. Give it a rest.

I've never seen that sort of behavior targeted specifically towards immigrants here - so there is less of an excuse to be terrible at the language after half a lifetime to practice..
 
I put it to you that the majority of older immigrants in Aus who are terrible at English are that way of their own choice
..

What if the old woman who is 'terrible at English' raised three children at home and never had the opportunity to work and spend time with Australians? You are quick to make judgements with no empathy or understanding of the real issues at hand.

I specifically chose Milan because I have lived there. Drive around Milan and if your skin is other than white you're likely to get rocks thrown at your car for being a 'terrone' (and it happened to a friend of mine); where English cleaning standards are referred to as 'alla Americana' (and it happened to me) which translates to 'slapdash and careless'; where western men and women are laughed at for their dress sense; where western food is considered bland, tasteless and generally disgusting. I chose Paris because I know of their views of people who are not French. I won't go on.

Bayview, you have obviously spent your whole life being king of the castle--in a lucky country with a history of a white Australia policy, where you have all the rights and freedom without question. You have never suffered the hardships of being a second class citizen; you have never been a minority. You have no understanding.
 
I don't know which parts of Aus you've lived in, but all the parts I've ever lived in the folks don't do that..."hey; how about that dirty immigrant house, and what about that tripe they eat!".
^^ this happens all the time. It is a part of the "us" and "them" way of thinking. Have you missed all the posts on this forum about having Indian tenants and the curry smell?
It is so deeply ingrained in this country that the majority of "white " aussies wouldn't even recognize it.
When my first daughter was born (25 years ago) because we had an Asian surname on day 3 a doctor came in and gave her a Hep B immunization. I couldn't stop it and was not asked for permission. I am white and 6th generation born, hubby is not. If that is not a purely racist policy I don't know what is. It has changed now, thankfully.
But my point is that when I asked my own doctor what it was all about she rather red-faced explained that all Asians are given the needle "because of how they live".
That phrase has stuck with me all these years.
We live the same way everyone else lives here, in a house in the suburbs. In fact, we had not been long in a brand new AV Jennings house in a new development. How were we living in a way that took away my rights based on my surname????
Assumptions, that's how. Them and us mentality, that's how. Endemic racism.
I think it is getting better and hopefully in another hundred years everyone will have a rellie who is "ethnic" and everyone will be over the racist cr@p.
 
I know plenty of immigrants as family/friends etc who all speak perfect english, who came over from 30+. I think it more comes down to the ethnic background, certain groups have more difficulty and willingness to take on other cultures/languages/customs etc.
To be honest, I doubt that someone 30+ could go to a foreign country and within a few years, become "perfect" at the language. Unless that person already spoke a similar language (ie. French), and had already learnt English from a young age, or was some sort of genius.

It's otherwise impossible for someone from, say, India or China, to become 100% fluent in so little time and after a certain age. They'll still have an accent, difficulty understanding complex phrases and technical words, etc.

I do agree that it's important for immigrants to make the effort to learn the local language (just as tourists from here should learn a few phrases when we go overseas), but they'll never be as fluent as someone born in the country.

And to be honest, it's only the first generation that tends to have difficulties assimilating. After that, the 2nd generation is as local as you can get. I've never met a 2nd gen migrant who doesn't speak fluent English.
 
I think it is getting better and hopefully in another hundred years everyone will have a rellie who is "ethnic" and everyone will be over the racist cr@p.

Joan, racism is everywhere, has existed since the dawn of man and will exist right up until the moment the last human dies.

I've known a bunch of racists in my lifetime. Some of them are white, some black, some asian. Ask Malays what they think of Thais, for instance. I used to have lunch with my Malay friend and if we saw a Thai person, I would give her a bit of a hard time by saying 'Hey look, there's a Thai person, we should go and say hello'. I don't know why she hated Thai people, Thai's are hands down the friendliest people I have ever met, generally speaking. All of my Thai friends have been super awesome people.

One time on another forum, I mentioned that my then girlfriend is Japanese. One of the other posters - a Chinese broad - told me that I 'should stick to my own race'. To which I replied 'you mean the human race?' When I profess my attraction to asian women, sometimes someone will say 'Oh, you have yellow fever'. No... I like attractive women and sometimes they happen to be asian.

Humanity is an inherently tribal culture - as you pointed out 'us vs them'. Although I am second generation Australian, my heritage is Ukrainian and I am fiercely proud of it. I love being Ukrainian, the culture, the language, everything! I'm about as Aryan as it is possible to be. But I have so many friends from so many different parts of the world and that's one of the millions of things I love about living in Australia, aka the best country in the world.

I've been doing a little bit of reading about White Nationalists, it's pretty interesting. I don't agree with very much of what they believe, because it's only *just* on this side of the line from full blown White Supremacy, but some of it I identify with. In particular, the pride in one's cultures and traditions. I've spawned a bit of an interest in Norse Mythology and Vikings as a result.

Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I am *not* comparing Norse mythology to White Nationalism, okie dokes!
 
Comparing two cities with two countries may not be a good comparison :)
Toronto and Vancouver are two of the most tolerant cities in the world. I lived in Toronto for 1.5 years and didn't even hear of racial issues there. To be fair, Toronto is usually in competition for the top spot of being the most multicultural city in the world.

USA is a big country, coastal cities tend to be more tolerant (and democratic) :D

Yea Toronto/Vancouver/New York is definitely more tolerant than Sydney/Melbourne. I don't think many more cities I've been to are more tolerant though.
 
One time on another forum, I mentioned that my then girlfriend is Japanese. One of the other posters - a Chinese broad - told me that I 'should stick to my own race'.

That's a disgusting thing to say. And I'm a Chinese who is quite supportive of China in general against Japanese aggressors from WW2.
 
Humanity is an inherently tribal culture - as you pointed out 'us vs them'. Although I am second generation Australian, my heritage is Ukrainian and I am fiercely proud of it. I love being Ukrainian, the culture, the language, everything! I'm about as Aryan as it is possible to be. But I have so many friends from so many different parts of the world and that's one of the millions of things I love about living in Australia, aka the best country in the world.

I've been doing a little bit of reading about White Nationalists, it's pretty interesting. I don't agree with very much of what they believe, because it's only *just* on this side of the line from full blown White Supremacy, but some of it I identify with. In particular, the pride in one's cultures and traditions. I've spawned a bit of an interest in Norse Mythology and Vikings as a result.

Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I am *not* comparing Norse mythology to White Nationalism, okie dokes!

Considering the connotations of the term Aryan and that you're using the term in the Nazi/racialist sense rather than historical sense (historically Aryans were Iranian/Indian), I'm surprised you'd embrace this term as you've mentioned in other threads that you're Jewish. I think the above post is a bit disingenuous. You know full well what the vast majority of white nationalists think of Jews, they certainly don't accept them as 'Aryan'. Talk about whitewashing things.
 
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