Some help required.

I'm after a bit of help.

Story is builders grano worker stuffed the setout and the slab is short by 100mm on a few sections but was long on one wall. They also have reduced the internal measurements of my ensuite because of the slab being setout wrong. No variation here either just carried out works without telling me.They then cut 100mm off the slab only to realise that they now had only 50mm overhang on the footing.

Next they decided to cut another 300mm off to pour a new footing and re pour slab backout. All cuts were done without my knowledge and no variations have been offered.

Well it has been 4-5months of no work whatsoever because they can not find anyone to carry out the works to fix someone elses stuff up.

They now have until Dec to finish house as per the contract which in my opinion will not happen.

Can someone tell me what happens if a builder goes over the agreed time to complete the build?

Thanks for any help

Regrow
 
Hi im away from home at present but my wife has had a look and cannot find anything in contract.

There will be clauses regarding liquidated damages as above, but also regarding dispute resolution etc. You will beed to follow these steps before anything else can be done. When this is all exhausted, then you can proceed legally.


pinkboy
 
I would be seeking state specific building laws, look up the laws and then talk to your Dept Fair Trading ? in WA.

Builders disputes are fairly common and they should be experienced in advising you what to do.

Perhaps a licensed building inspector who is prepared to defend their opinion in court, then unfortunately you will probably have to engage a lawyer but I would be taking steps Now so the builders know you are not happy and may make some effort to do a better job.
 
Hi Regrow

What's your builder had to say about this?

I've seen short concrete pads with dynabolts in the frame at a 45deg angle to anchor them back in and some dodgy patchwork

I've also seen pads laid on the wrong block

And I've posted a thread here with photos of our concrete pad story on our first new build
 
Engineers drawings also have the slab rebar with 30 mm cover. But where they cut the slab the rebar is located anywhere from 10mm to 50mm from the bottom on a 100mm slab. The engineer when I questioned him on it said that it was ok as the rebar is only there for the curing process and offered no strength properties to the slab itself. Can anyone confirm this to be true?
Seems fishy that he contradicts himself from what was on his drawings.
 
Sorry, Regrow, but this sounds like a nightmare in the making. No work on site for four months is a huge problem. What excuse is the builder giving you?

First, have you spoken to the builder and told him he has to get back to work? He may have run out of money and moved on to his next build.

Two, what kind of contract do you have? If it is an MBA or HIA contract contact the relevant building authority. That's not to say that they will do anything. As they are a fee-paying member organisation, they tend to defend their builders. But they can often help.

Is your practical completion date in December? If so, all I would be doing at this point is pestering the builder. Whatever you do, do NOT pay him any stage of the building work until it is actually done. What stages has he completed and have you paid him. You must pay him his invoices within the time specified in the contract (usually seven days) if the stage is complete, otherwise he can sue you and say that you are in breach of the contract.

Three, if you get no comfort from the MBA or the HIA, contact your local planning authority and tell them what is happening. Here in Canberra, ACTPLA was very helpful with me when my builder stuffed up. Your local planning authority can open an investigation into the builder. They have the power to remove his licence. That might make him get back to work.

Four, read your contract carefully. Do not worry if there are no or nil liquidated damages, as legally you are still entitled to general damages. My builder refused to put in any liquidated damages and went nine months past practical completion date.

Five, contact your state member in charge of housing/building. The ACT minister for planning was a huge help to me.

Keep a diary. Visit the site often. I had the same thing happen to me last year. I had to get a lawyer. I got good advice. PM me if you want to.
 
Regrow, I notice you are in Perth. Is there a building certifier? Ring him and tell him. He will not pass the work if it is not as per the plans. That is assuming that the building inspector is truly working independently. Here in Canberra that doesn't happen. Building is self-regulated here. Consequently, building certifiers are reluctant to pull up the builder on anything as they want to continue working with the builder. You should have selected the certifier. Sorry for being a bit longwinded.
 
Who are your structural engineers Regrow?

Aaron and Colin gave me a few alternatives when I was looking at getting a 3rd opinion
 
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There will be clauses regarding liquidated damages as above, but also regarding dispute resolution etc. You will beed to follow these steps before anything else can be done. When this is all exhausted, then you can proceed legally.

Yes, the contract will contain clauses regarding dispute resolution. Unfortunately, many builders don't care about the contracts they sign. Some will quite happily repudiate the terms of the contract knowing that consumers will not chase them through the courts because of the costs. You may have to be proactive and take the initiative. I had to drag my builder along to the MBA for mediation. Even after mediation, when all the decisions had been made in the builder's favour, he ignored them all. I was happy to abide by the decisions made at mediation because they were better than what the builder was trying to foist upon me.
 
Strewth, property girl! Nine months is a looong time. Did you manage to get any LD out of the builder after mediation?

Hi Beanie Girl, I know: nine months is a long time. And that was after my pressuring him, getting the MBA involved, and having the minister on my side. I ended up taking possession without a certificate of occupancy and getting another builder to finish. The answer to your question is, no, I did not chase general damages. I just wanted it over. The builder had added the 'GST' of more than $40,000 on to the contract AFTER I signed it. I did not pay him that sum. He then engaged a lawyer to come after me for the money. Once he found out that I was entitled to damages and once consumer affairs told him that he was up for a fine of more than $1m for not giving me a quote with the GST, he left. I was glad to see the back of him.
 
It would have been nice if the 1m dollars fine was given to you, PG :D
Builders get away with blue murder here in Melbourne too
Sorry regrow to hear about the delay in your project, hope your builder manages to finish it by Dec
 
Regrow,

Get an inspection from someone qualified (go check Redwings thread) and get professional opinion on this.

They can't just make stuff smaller.

Unless they have ammended to standard HIA contract there should be a clause what happens with delays.

Call in the big guns now.

I'd want the whole thing redone
 
Sorry, Regrow, but this sounds like a nightmare in the making. No work on site for four months is a huge problem. What excuse is the builder giving you?

First, have you spoken to the builder and told him he has to get back to work? He may have run out of money and moved on to his next build.

Two, what kind of contract do you have? If it is an MBA or HIA contract contact the relevant building authority. That's not to say that they will do anything. As they are a fee-paying member organisation, they tend to defend their builders. But they can often help.

Is your practical completion date in December? If so, all I would be doing at this point is pestering the builder. Whatever you do, do NOT pay him any stage of the building work until it is actually done. What stages has he completed and have you paid him. You must pay him his invoices within the time specified in the contract (usually seven days) if the stage is complete, otherwise he can sue you and say that you are in breach of the contract.

Three, if you get no comfort from the MBA or the HIA, contact your local planning authority and tell them what is happening. Here in Canberra, ACTPLA was very helpful with me when my builder stuffed up. Your local planning authority can open an investigation into the builder. They have the power to remove his licence. That might make him get back to work.

Four, read your contract carefully. Do not worry if there are no or nil liquidated damages, as legally you are still entitled to general damages. My builder refused to put in any liquidated damages and went nine months past practical completion date.

Five, contact your state member in charge of housing/building. The ACT minister for planning was a huge help to me.

Keep a diary. Visit the site often. I had the same thing happen to me last year. I had to get a lawyer. I got good advice. PM me if you want to.

I originally stopped job for about four weeks due to the errors. Had an independent inspector go through also. May 5th was when I emailed them to start works again. Many onsite meetings with how they are going to fix things. They finally said last week that they could not find a contractor who would come out and fix someone elses stuff up.

Have spoken to building commission a few times and got the impression they werent interested. I will make a complaint anyway to at least have it logged. I was going to lodge one when it happened but gave them the benefit of the doubt and that they said they would fix things.

Have only paid for slab as the walls are incomplete due to the slab being cut. They did send out an invoice for walls but I have not paid as stage is not complete.

Hia contract with no liquidation damages only disputes info.
 
Regrow, I notice you are in Perth. Is there a building certifier? Ring him and tell him. He will not pass the work if it is not as per the plans. That is assuming that the building inspector is truly working independently. Here in Canberra that doesn't happen. Building is self-regulated here. Consequently, building certifiers are reluctant to pull up the builder on anything as they want to continue working with the builder. You should have selected the certifier. Sorry for being a bit longwinded.

I have had 2 different inspector through with the second one recommended from the building commission. He was excellent but although he aggrees that the workmanship on the slab was way below par at best said that due to the fact the builders engineer has said everything will be ok and are willing to certify the slab the building commission will usually side with the builder. He has also pulled them up on the number of ties connecting the internal walls. Every builder only uses one tie but the Aust Sandard is 2 ties.

Who are your structural engineers Regrow?

Aaron and Colin gave me a few alternatives when I was looking at getting a 3rd opinion

From memory redwing they are Structure? Was thinking of obtaining a second opinion regarding the slab as all along I wanted everything ripped up and started again.

Regrow,

They can't just make stuff smaller.

The error for the reduction came about from the measurement on the plans.
The bricklayer was using 2 version old plans with different window sizes and when I mentioned this to the supervisor they got new plans sent out. Now new plans were only 1 version old. Third time lucky and the bricky had the correct plans.

Now on the plans he was using ie the one with the slab setout with all measurements the area of concern was the ensuite measurement of 1090mm but on the plan where the area is blown up just to show the measurements of the ensuite, the measurement was 1000mm.

With this the builder said that the draft person just made an error and that the house is built from these individual drawings and not from the site plan with all measurements. Funny how the bricky was building it from the wrong plans then?

Fact remains that they have built the ensuite 90mm smaller internally from the plans that I had signed off on.
 
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The error for the reduction came about from the measurement on the plans.
The bricklayer was using 2 version old plans with different window sizes and when I mentioned this to the supervisor they got new plans sent out. Now new plans were only 1 version old. Third time lucky and the bricky had the correct plans.

Now on the plans he was using ie the one with the slab setout with all measurements the area of concern was the ensuite measurement of 1090mm but on the plan where the area is blown up just to show the measurements of the ensuite, the measurement was 1000mm.

With this the builder said that the draft person just made an error and that the house is built from these individual drawings and not from the site plan with all measurements. Funny how the bricky was building it from the wrong plans then?

Fact remains that they have built the ensuite 90mm smaller internally from the plans that I had signed off on.

Perhaps it may pay to go through your entire building contract, in detail.

In contracts Ive seen and signed, there are clauses relating to size variation in some instances. Gross size miscalculations will be subject to scrutiny if you show cause, however minor size descrepencies may be waivered.

It appears the builder has set and poured the slab wrong in the first instance. He obviously took on board (from you) that it was wrong, and then recalculated, cut and re-poured the slab. However, this does not warrant 'variation', this is just the builder fixing his mistake.

So now the slab is slighlty out because of a slight miscalculation by a drafty. We are now talking <1% (perhaps even <.1%) of building footprint. This is why authorities are not interested. Also, with Inspectors coming out, and saying they will approve the slab, this is not going to help your case.

All while costing you holding costs.

I think it would pay dividends to sit down with your builder properly and move forward on the situation, then this too and fro regarding 90mm in an ensuite. Granted yes, its going to be tight in there, but suck it up and move on, or this can drag out much longer, and at the further expense of the builder being
p!$$ed off. Expects plenty of real 'variations' in the future of this build.


pinkboy
 
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