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  #41  
Old 16-04-2012, 03:11 PM
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SS you seem a nice enough guy and didn't intend to upset you personally (or cm), but you did make statements generalizing women, both Asian and Western, that I responded to within the context of the subject raised.

Most people know there are bad and good individuals, but what amazes me here is that some think all the problems lie with one gender, or one nationality, never themselves.

If people worked on their own personalities and behaviours perhaps they wouldn't have had half of the issues they did in the past, or blame others for their own shortcomings.

Btw, I've been married 25 years. Husband didn't have assets when we met, I about 70% equity in a house. Both worked fulltime and earned similar incomes over the years, however mine is now 30% more than his (have encouraged him to start winding down while I'm happy to keep working).

Why has my marriage lasted? The main reasons are he isn't dependent, or possessive, and has no emotional hang ups or problems with women. Infact he also LIKES women as individuals (I see how he relates to them). I must add however he is not the type to put up with BS, so probably why he has good ones in his life .
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  #42  
Old 16-04-2012, 03:50 PM
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As I said, my partner is western. We both have jobs. We share tasks around the house. Neither of us is more important than the other.

Maybe it's a generational thing, but I have too much respect for individual women, and for individual men, to ever see one partner as a subservient one.
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  #43  
Old 16-04-2012, 04:26 PM
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As I said, my partner is western. We both have jobs. We share tasks around the house. Neither of us is more important than the other.

Maybe it's a generational thing, but I have too much respect for individual women, and for individual men, to ever see one partner as a subservient one.
I think things have changed because women want to be more employable and less dependent, and the males now are used to this, and think it's how things should be - I think they like this similarity between the sexes.

It has nothing to do with women trying to be men or controlling men, and they've come to know that.

My son is only 19 and I know he would think it bizarre, and run a mile, if a girl had the attitude that a man looked after her, simply because she's a woman .

Most girls he knows (that I know too) would be very capable of looking after themselves I'd say, and the guys they hang out with would think this is how it should be.
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  #44  
Old 17-04-2012, 09:24 PM
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SS you seem a nice enough guy and didn't intend to upset you personally
It is so easy to fool people on the internet....I ain't so nice.

Anyway, it takes a lot more than that to upset me.

I do not particularly like the generalisations of many people in the west when they see guys with Asian girls....while many guys go above and beyond in helping this stereotype...it is not all.

Many years ago in Melbourne we were walking back home from the casino one night. Some young bucks on the other side of the road crossed near us after they spotted us walking. I expected some trouble...instead they yelled out as they passed us..."how much did you pay for her"....I was about to respond when my wife spun around on her heels and yelled .."more than ya father paid for ya mother ********".....I was so proud.

Another wonderful narrow minded view I have to look forward to will be in about 10 to 15 years....I will be 60 odd years old and my very very cute daughter will be 17/20yo....I will be getting stares from the 'dirty old man' brigade when I am out with her anywhere alone....but I expect that and shall respond as required to each and every individual occasion.

The East is not the same as the West....attitudes and culture as so very different....what is accepted here would not be in Oz....but regardless one is not better than the other, they are both good in their own worlds.

Woman here have an overwhelming sense of taking care of their family first and foremost...work, independence and their own lives come second.

It is true that money has a different focus here to Oz...and also that the poor and poverty stricken seek ways to get themselves out of it...wouldn't you ?? I certainly would.
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  #45  
Old 17-04-2012, 09:30 PM
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I didnt take it as a personal dig at all. That is what this forum is about sharing ideas even if you disagree with the view.

I am in asia for work not for the women. Although i know many westerners who are here for that reason. About attracting a woman ive never had an issue there. Financially very stable, not overweight, have a stable job and able to easily provide for a family when i choose to have one.

I agree not all western women fall into the category described but more and more do. Asian culture is much more focussed on supporting the family unit and as a team working together for the betterment of the family. I dont need someone to cook, clean and do those things for me as i have a maid and driver who can do all that for me. However i like the fact that there is never a discussion about 'sharing duties'. I work hard, bring in a decent income and provide financial security. For asian women this is paramount.

In return you will be looked after. Maybe many men are scared to say this is what they want but then the divorce rate in western countries is extremely high and brothels are doing a roaring trade with many married men visiting them. In fact most brothels service married men. Just go to thailand and go to any 5 star hotel and you will see the plethora of business men taking their 'short time girlfriend' back to their hotel room. All without the wives knowing or at least ingoring it. If things were so great then this wouldnt be happening. Men who tell you they want women to be the same as them are either gay or getting some on the side with a women who isnt like them.

You can easily be rejected by an asian woman in asia. Try dressing poorly and getting a date with a hiso girl from bangkok. Good luck !!

Im just sharing what i see in the real world not in some delusional fantasy.
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  #46  
Old 17-04-2012, 11:38 PM
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cm,

Glad you didn't take offence. As a matter of fact, as I wrote I didn't visualize you personally as being a knob or someone with major deficiencies.

I've been to Thailand. From my perspective western man is often western dollars/ticket to a more prosperous life. This WILL dictate how a man will be treated.

Dependency in the female of any country that doesn't provide safety nets will bear the same result.

That's life in those places, and people will do whatever they can in the name of survival.

That said, I don't doubt that alot of these unions work - if both parties have most of their needs met then no doubt they will, just like any other unions.

The only thing that make me cringe is that dependency thing that some guys like.

That is a type of control, and to me indicates that the flaw is in the man rather than ALL women.

SS,

You said it .

Look, people do make generalizations when they shouldn't, but in most cases I think it's people not articulating well.

I know you aint that stupid to think everyone else has faults but you, and I know most people have some dependencies, and there are different types of relationships that can work.

I just think it a GOOD thing when women are independent.

I know if I had a daughter I'd want her to be educated, employable, confident as well as family orientanted, and respected by a male for being these things.

I have sons and have drummed into them to respect females for all those things.

Women with those traits are rarely 'gold diggers' or bogan (in the family orientated sense).
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  #47  
Old 28-04-2012, 07:54 AM
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I was talking generally, and wanted to state my point that I think most of the behaviour (personality) of third world Asian women towards western men is dictated by economics.
I would agree.

I've observed a large number of these Western man-Asian woman couples over my years and have come to this conclusion about the probable/possible reasons for how they exist. A bit general, but still....

Correct me if I'm wrong....

The Man - usually past middle age and usually not all that attractive to the opposite sex (physically) any longer (at least from my observation of these men). Probably divorced with grown up kids and/or grand kids. Still wants a relationship and/or some "action", but they are unlikely to get a western woman partner due to various reasons; or they have tried and been unsuccessful, so have given up on the western variety and gone for what is deemed to be an "easier" search somewhere up north. So he heads OS to begin the search, or maybe finds her online, or in the Classifieds. He is probably quite aware that the woman is there for the life he can provide, but chooses to ignore that and hopes to keep it all going as long as possible.

The Woman - usually many years younger than the man. I always find myself wondering how these much younger women would be attracted to the "grandfather" they are walking with....gotta be another explanation. I know that looks are not all there is to a successful union, but hey; come on....

Economics is the more likely motivator.. The woman is probably from a poorer lifestyle and or area, and the union with the western man is seen as an escape from that life, and an opportunity to a better life and a chance to provide for the family. I think that deep down both parties know what the deal is here.

I know a guy, who several years ago had a thriving and successful golf products company here in Melb. He had the above scenario; and his wife was younger and very beautiful. He was older, and quite well-off financially. They had a child together; all seemed good - but still a bit of an odd pairing if you asked me....one day he came home to a totally empty house and bank account. never saw her or the child (or the money) again till this day.

Not saying that these relationships can't be based on love and physical attraction (on both sides), but I think it is less likely.
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  #48  
Old 28-04-2012, 09:14 AM
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I think most of the behaviour (personality) of third world Asian women towards western men is dictated by economics.
This statement, while accurate, would be more accurate if you had simply said "most of the behaviour (personality) of women towards men is dictated by economics". Denial of that fact is living in La La Land.

Or as Dr Warren Farrell says 'Men treat women as sex objects, women treat men as success objects'.
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  #49  
Old 28-04-2012, 01:15 PM
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This statement, while accurate, would be more accurate if you had simply said "most of the behaviour (personality) of women towards men is dictated by economics". Denial of that fact is living in La La Land.

Or as Dr Warren Farrell says 'Men treat women as sex objects, women treat men as success objects'.

Now I'm having visions of a country overun by rich Aussie w*****s and overdone blond bimbos .

When I said 'economics' I was referring to their general poverty and inability to break out of it, that these women are in, as the reason for their behaviour (personality) towards western men.

How often do you see a western 20yo woman with a 72yo man here? But you do see it with Asian women and western men (I know of 2 cases here in Adelaide now).

Any behaviour by these Asian females towards western males is FAR more desperate than any Australian females I've met, who have a similar earning ability as the men (just look at couples around you) and residency in a first world country.

Ability to earn is a big factor in choosing a male for Australian women, much more than amount earned or extreme wealth. Not one of my friends has ever frequented places where they thought wealthy men strayed, of played up to them like Asian girls (according to males here I'm not typical though) .

Others things women look for here is sex, attractiveness and personality - comes when you're not so desperate for money (Maslows theory of sexual motivation ).

Money just isn't enough for us. Could this be making some men uncomfortable?

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Old 28-04-2012, 01:51 PM
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weg,

One point I think that is not being addressed here is 'Why are so many Australian men looking overseas for a partner?'

Having read many views and opinions on the subject over the last several years, it is overwhelmingly the 'Entitlement Princess' attitude from an increasing number of women in Western society today. Contrary to popular belief, most of the men just want someone who respects and appreciates them. This is becoming an increasingly rare commodity in Western women. We have what I like to call the 'Oprahfication' of women to thank for that.

Does it guarantee they will find this overseas? Of course not. No option is perfect. But the chances are higher that they will. You may not agree with that, but let me ask you this - if they could easily find that here, why would they go to Asia and Eastern Europe in increasing numbers?

As for these women being open to hooking up with Western men, heck, why wouldn't they? I don't know where you're looking, but the whole '20 y.o. broad with an much older man' thing is quite common actually. But you know, there are far more 'average' guys who can provide a significantly better lifestyle to an Asian woman than there are wealthy men. So is it really a surprise to you that you see more of that?
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  #51  
Old 28-04-2012, 02:10 PM
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weg,

'Why are so many Australian men looking overseas for a partner?'
Firstly 'so many' is NOT a large percentage.

I have raised this topic with my husband, and he thinks there is an issue with many of these men too.

Agree they're not connecting with western women, but at the same time, the blame isn't with all or most western women.

I think traits like 'princess' exist, but men also have traits equivalent to princess.

Could the problem for some of these men be that Aussie women are much less dependent on men (the opposite to 'gold digger' 'bimbo' or Asian woman)?

The point I was trying to make here.

Quote:
Others things women look for here is sex, attractiveness and personality - comes when you're not so desperate for money (Maslows theory of sexual motivation ).
Just my views.
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Old 28-04-2012, 02:25 PM
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Money just isn't enough for us. Could this be making some men uncomfortable?
I just think for western women the qty of money required is much higher for it to be influencing.

Of course if you have more money or opportunity to begin with you would only be influenced by a much larger opportunity than someone whos opportunities are more limited at first instance. I suspect men are only less influenced by women with money because on average they have more to begin with or have a higher capacity to earn more.

Hey and to be fair that makes blokes no different. The only difference comes about by men's general predisposition to earn more in the first place, rather like a western womans ability to earn more than a woman in a third world country.

Thinking this through, I could not see myself knocking back an older lady who sailed past on her new luxury yacht while I was down at the foreshore having lunch, who asked if I wanted to go on a 6 month around the world sailing tour following the Australian cricket tour starting now?

And if I thought I could go on doing that for the rest of my life i.e. being supported, I reckon I would.

OK, other factors would be in play too but it would almost certainly come into the equation.

I would prefer to think money is not the path to happiness but I fear it does play a part in it if one is to be realistic. Happiness is what we are after afterall and given for most of us sex only lasts a small fraction of the day I don't think it matters if you make sacrifices there for improvements elsewhere?

hey I should mention I got married when my missus and I were both poor so the above is hypothetical and not from experience though I kinda wish it was...
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Old 28-04-2012, 02:39 PM
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Well, you don't really see the older woman/toy boy thing very much because of women's propensity to 'marry up'. You know, hook the rich dude with lots of cash, then bang the pool boy on the side, ala Desperate Housewives.

Maybe that's what weg was referring to when she said 'Other things women look for here is sex, attractiveness and personality - comes when you're not so desperate for money'.
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Old 28-04-2012, 03:31 PM
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I think there's far less marrying UP now to the extent you talk about, than ever before - again through not needing to. Most pair up in equal standing and are happy with it, rather than wanting to marry up and failing to do so.

I know quite a few wealthy couples and they all started out the same, poor, yet I wonder how often people that don't know them look at them and think the wife did well .

I single friend of mine that has a 'very' decent net worth (all accumulated after a divorce where she got nothing and had to start over) told me a story of a potential tenant who came around to view a property and asked if the LL was about. They appeared preplexed that she was the LL.

People she knows well have always assumed she inherited everything from her ex too.

Infact I think many times it's assumed that in partnership the male is behind all or most of the financial prosperity, when it just isn't the case.

Perhaps your reality is tainted by bad experience? Or am I living under a rock .
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Old 28-04-2012, 03:51 PM
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IInfact I think many times it's assumed that in partnership the male is behind all or most of the financial prosperity, when it just isn't the case.
weg, there are always exceptions to every rule. I work in finance and i can tell you that in the overwhelming majority of cases, it is the male in the relationship that drives the financial stuff.

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IPerhaps your reality is tainted by bad experience? Or am I living under a rock .
Nah. Sure, I've had bad experiences in relationships, but who hasn't?
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Old 28-04-2012, 04:22 PM
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Maybe they are just not all that attractive to a guy that likes a feminine looking woman....you know Lisa Curry and her muscles never did it for me.

As for the 70yo/20yo....I also find this strange....but take a look at Hugh Heffner and his young western 20yo bimbos ???......or for a local example...Dr Eddleston

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Old 28-04-2012, 05:14 PM
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Money just isn't enough for us. Could this be making some men uncomfortable?
Not at all.
They just don't like the 2 faced BS that women dish them, using illogical silly arguments to justify themselves.
And once they have their wealth and good job, all the attractive well off guys go the 25yr olds because they don't like their presumptious arrogance.
Including that of being able to raise a one parent family, which creates wussy men and "daddy's girls" who will like older men, or just go for badboy a**holes.

Men no longer have reason to get married, the whole deal is skewed heavily against them.
It's always the women pushing for a commitment, men are realising there just isn't much in for them anymore.

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Others things women look for here is sex, attractiveness and personality - comes when you're not so desperate for money (Maslows theory of sexual motivation ).
And yet they mostly end up with loser unemployed bums once they pass 35.
Money and success in a woman means nothing to a man, swearing, drinking, and "acting like a man" even less. Even for most unemployed bums.
But that's all they can get.
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Old 28-04-2012, 06:02 PM
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I think another reason and many women know this deep down is that most men do not prefer to have one sexual partner. In fact i think it is abnormal. For women once they have their children then they are content and move on with life. For men its time to find the next sexual partner. All part of our evolutionary makeup. Now a lot of asian women understand this and let their partners have mistresses etc but as long as they remain the main woman in their life. This is engrained in lots of asian cultures and in thai for example it is called the mia noi or gik. Western women require men to stick with them and you end up hearing their husbands complaining about only getting sex on their birthday if they are lucky, going to brothels and cheating on them. How depressing.

Most me i know like having sex at least once a week and again i think it is evolutionary. So how do men who dont have a partner that wants sex as often fulfill their need. Either one of three ways. Mistress, brothel or porn.

Probably going to stir up a hornet nest here raising this but hey why not
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Old 28-04-2012, 06:10 PM
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Piston fully agreed here marriage makes absolutely no sense for a man. Tied to life to one sexual partner for one or two children. Goes totally against how we evolved. How many animals do the same ? Remember we are just more evolved animals. Anyway many men are releasing marriage is a total waste of time. Read these forums, etc dont see many men sticking up for marriage and its one sexual partner for life. Why is porn one of the major things men at look on the internet. For one reason men were never meant to have one woman. Many married women hate this but maybe they should think about while they check out the internet browsing history of their partner.
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Old 28-04-2012, 07:07 PM
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cm, but men keep on getting married .

Geez, who wouldn't like multiple partners. Infact I've said to friends in the past that I think in an ideal world there wouldn't be any jealousy and possesiveness and we could ALL do this .

So, as an accountant did you ask these men if they met their wives before or after they became wealthy. I don't actually disagree than men earn more than women.

PB, the BS si from both sides. You moreso than any male here sounds insecure. Hope you one day find a woman that will respect and like you, and you can make peace with them .

I've come across many a ****** in my time and still like men.

SS, perhaps some men don't find muscled Australian woman attractive . You should have just said so in the first place.
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