Gold

Just having a look back at the historical price of gold

It was $19.00 per ounce in 1800 and a cursory look at wages on various google hits shows wages were around $16.00 per week.

Gold is now at around $1,760.00 per ounce a 9,162.2% increase

images

Any idea what the Dow was in 1800:confused:


Gold Price
 
Not sure about the dow, but the average weekly full-time ordinary time earnings (AWOTE) in the August 2011 quarter in Victoria for males was $1,343.80 - an increase of 8,298.75%.

So gold growth has outstripped wages over the same period.
 
I think it was also somewhere in the double digits. Whatever the case I am fairly confident DOW has risen much much higher than Gold percentage wise over the past 100-150 years.

Cheers,
Oracle.

From wikipedia

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was founded by Charles Dow on May 26, 1896, and represented the dollar average of 12 stocks from leading American industries.

When it was first published in the late 1890s, the index stood at a level of 40.94, but ended up hitting its all-time low of 28.48 during the summer of 1896 during the depths of what later became known as the Panic of 1896.

DOW closed around 12705 yesterday. It has gained approx 30887% since 1890.

Cheers,
Oracle.
 
From wikipedia





DOW closed around 12705 yesterday. It has gained approx 30887% since 1890.

Cheers,
Oracle.

and this doesnt include dividends.
i read somewhere that dividends made up either 40 or 60% (cant remember which) of total long term shareholder returns.

Factor in dividends and the total return becomes even higher.
 
and this doesnt include dividends.
i read somewhere that dividends made up either 40 or 60% (cant remember which) of total long term shareholder returns.

Factor in dividends and the total return becomes even higher.

DIVIDENDS? on stocks in the Industrial Average?

compound 0.005% for me.
 
hobo - does that graph imply that wages are now 1:1 with the gold price?

sorry - bit hard to gauge without knowing what that sidebar is.
 
hobo - does that graph imply that wages are now 1:1 with the gold price?

sorry - bit hard to gauge without knowing what that sidebar is.

Could be labelled a little better couldn't it :D , it's average weekly wage / ounce of Gold. The data was only current to the end of 2010 at which point yes Gold and 1 average weekly wage were around 1:1. Over 100 years the ratio has remained within a relatively consistent band of around 1/2 (Gold overvalued) to 2 ounces (Gold undervalued) per weekly wage...
 
cheers - i thought so but just wanted to check.

so that would imply that there's been serious wage growth since the tech crash (gold $400-$1500 and wages 1:1 in 2010), which is interesting, because that would directly correlate with the allowable increase in credit, thereby the allowable increase in asset values.

maybe it's not all bubbles after all....?
 
cheers - i thought so but just wanted to check.

so that would imply that there's been serious wage growth since the tech crash (gold $400-$1500 and wages 1:1 in 2010), which is interesting, because that would directly correlate with the allowable increase in credit, thereby the allowable increase in asset values.

maybe it's not all bubbles after all....?

Gold has been rising a fair bit faster than wages, hence the ratio has lowered as Gold has moved from undervalued to middle ground...

The wages data used for the last 15 years of the chart are here:
http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/meisubs.nsf/0/F7B7DD952D759B6CCA2578940016439F/$File/6302003.xls

Full time adult earning (I think that's what I used, don't have the table with me at the moment) went from 808.60 in Feb 2000 to 1328.50 in Nov 2010.
 
There are a lot of sound reasons to believe gold is not in a bubble. I'm not about to canvass them now.

There is no doubt that gold IS a long term storage of wealth. Two things to note: It slides in the good times and appreciates in the bad.

If you were a Jew with some gold coins sewn in your seams in Hitler's Germany, how valuable would they have been? I'm not saying Julia is like Hitler but we are living in troubled times.

Again, more a problem for the Yanks where the spectre of a "bank holiday" looms large [Look up Gerald Celente] but I believe in having some "living expenses" I don't need a bank to access.

Besides, bullion coins are shiny. :cool:
 
Forgot to mention: For most of history gold has not been free floating. When you have a gold backed currency the POG is fixed in that currency. It is in the the bureaucrats' interests not to revalue gold because that is effectively devaluing your currency which immediately buys less.

Today's gold price has IMHO merely made up for all the years when Britain and the US had it pegged. If you see trouble ahead for world currencies [as I do] then the only way is up.
 
There is no doubt that gold IS a long term storage of wealth. Two things to note: It slides in the good times and appreciates in the bad.
Add to your stock holdings in the bad times and your gold holdings in the good times then?

Besides, bullion coins are shiny. :cool:

I agree...it's purty ;) Reminds me of the Steve Martin movie "A Simple Twist of Fate" where he was saving all those lovely gold coins, nice nest egg

I like gold, coins and old gold coins :D
 
Found this on Motlety Fool ; it needs to be extrapolated out to 2012 though to include the GFC and Golds recent stellar run

1998 post

Why? Because over the long-term, stocks perform best. Let's look at a few historical numbers. The ones I use below are taken from the book Stocks for the Long Run, by Jeremy Siegel, a business professor at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.

Professor Siegel studied how stocks and other investment options (such as bonds and gold) performed over almost 200 years. He found that stocks fared best. To prove his point, he looked at what happened to a single dollar if it was invested in 1802 (only three years after George Washington died) in stocks, short-term bonds, long-term bonds, and gold. The results are impressive. In 190 years, the single dollar grew to the following sizes:

  • Stocks: $3,050,000
  • Long-term bonds: $6,620
  • Short-term bonds: $2,934
  • Gold: $13
Of course, you probably don't expect to live 190 years, right? So let's see how stocks do on average each year. Over the 190 years, stocks offered an average yearly return of 9.5%.

Let's look at a more recent period. Between 1926 (just before the big crash of 1929 that preceded the Great Depression) and 1992, stocks returned a yearly average of 12%.

Professor Siegel notes that when you factor in inflation, these averages drop a few percentage points. (But returns for any other investment option also decrease due to inflation.)

Anyway -- the big conclusion here is summed up by Professor Siegel's book title, Stocks for the Long Run. Young people who can leave their money to grow for many years should probably be in stocks.

Source

Not sure what that $1 would be worth now, either way...I'm still keeping my coins
 
Here's a portfolio for you..

The Permanent Portfolio was created in 1981 by Harry Browne, an American investment adviser, writer and politician who died in 2006.

It’s dead simple. You put your money into four equal buckets: stocks, long-term government bonds, cash, and yes, gold.

In the 30 years since Browne first wrote about it, the Permanent Portfolio has delivered an annualized return of more than 8%.

Even since 2000, the start of the worst decade for stocks since the Depression, it has hovered around that 8% mark. No wonder it’s attracted a new generation of disciples.

The logic behind this is the perception that the economy is always in one of four states:

  1. Prosperity
  2. Inflation
  3. Recession
  4. Depression

In each of these environments, one class of investments will over-perform enough to compensate for the underperformance of the others.

I think it has historically tracked the stock market, apparently without the volatility. There is also an annual rebalancing of the portfolio to ensure an equal balance of investment funds within those 4 buckets

Harry Browne

Source

There is an actual US Fund called the Permanent Portfolio Fund that in 2001 had funds of around $52 million and in 2011 of $15.5 Billion (flight to safety?) this fund is made up of:

35% Bonds
30% Stocks (US)
20% Gold
10% Swiss francs/ Swiss government debt
5% Silver
 
I added some new shiny to the stack today :D

61_american_gold_eagle_2012.jpg

v nice. i took delivery os 10x 1oz scotties and a few half oz gold tigers the other day, the scotties were pretty much spot and the tigers were only a $9 premium.

also finalised my perth mint silver proof series. i got the entire set under spot, so sitting on about 40% profit retail.
 
also finalised my perth mint silver proof series. i got the entire set under spot, so sitting on about 40% profit retail.
Which Perth Mint proof series? Geez doing well buying PROOF coins under spot :confused:

I've only had a couple of chances to buy below spot, one was sterling Silver coins and the other was some 1 kilo PAMP bars.
 
Back
Top